Tales from the Spectrum Photo Pit with Rich Fuscia- inside the world of rock photography!

SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, welcome back to the city.

SPEAKER_02: Let's go. Spectrum arena. Spectrum health.

SPEAKER_02: Today we have a special guest who will take us inside the arena of rock photography. And I'd like to welcome our guests and good friends, Rick Feature. Rick was one of the top rock photographers.

SPEAKER_02: And locally in the newspaper to public case by Carter Fans.

SPEAKER_02: The story of a fan's rides to become one of the premier rock photographers. This book is autobiographical and addressed to the hundreds of shows and concerts and backstage photos of local and national fans. I'll copy a link to his website, the show notes for you to see all his photos, and also to purchase the book. I highly recommend it if you are a music fan. Rich, welcome to the show and thanks for joining me today. Well, I recommend everyone to purchase the book. It's really the best rock photography book published.

SPEAKER_02: And the processes of uh becoming a rock photographer from a fan sneaking in the uh a camera and then the resulting shots of both amateur and and professional.

SPEAKER_00: That time of your life, like going to concerts, it's for most people, for a lot of people anyway, it's one of the most memorable times of their lives. I know for me it was at those concerts back then. I mean, I don't really go to that many now, tell you the truth.

SPEAKER_01: Right.

SPEAKER_00: But uh back then, man, they were it was an exciting time. You had to go see your favorite band, you know, it w was exciting.

SPEAKER_02: W you mentioned in your book, um I'll I'll start with your interest in photography. And you started with your friend, right, whose uh father was a freelance photographer.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And uh and my friend, uh he was a friend I met in college because I I really didn't uh know him before that. But anyway, uh yeah, he had his father, like I said, taught him how to do photos and he actually had a dark room in his house uh for developing the photos. That was my first first few concerts. I took some black and white photos and we went used to go up in his dark room there and develop them. It was pretty fun, you know, l learning about that. But I never got really into that aspect.

SPEAKER_00: Um and and once I started going to the concerts I said I gotta start doing some colors. Color photos, you know what I mean? Yes, well he you know, he was his expertise was just black and white photos, like for the newspapers, that's it, and all that kind of stuff. So color stuff you had to send that to him out to get developed and all.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well your first show was um was it Jethro Toll?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Jethro Toll was my first concert.

SPEAKER_02: Nice nineteen seventy.

SPEAKER_00: Uh I just walked in with a camera. There they weren't a certain time uh period. I guess that was like mid seventies, seventy-five, seventy-six maybe. And there wasn't like camera restrictions at that time. Uh I just walked right in took it.

SPEAKER_02: Oh god, really?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but yeah, you were just allowed to walk in with a camera.

SPEAKER_02: You had it around your neck? Like a real like a real camera?

SPEAKER_00: I didn't have Yeah, like a thirty five millimeter camera with a nice I I might not have had a big lens back then, but I had, you know, a regular lens about four or five inches maybe.

SPEAKER_02: Right, wow.

SPEAKER_00: I just walked in and people used to do that all the time. And but then it I don't know, a certain point, late seventies it started saying on the tickets that you couldn't bring cameras or uh recording devices. People used to bring tape recorders too. And tape the uh you know what I mean? And and tape the uh shows.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's how we got all those great bootlegs that are out there.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember yeah, going to I remember Malawood, there was a store down there I used to go to and they would have it would just be a plane, it would be an album with a white, just a white album cover, and it would just maybe have like a sticker on it that uh Pink Floyd live at the Spectrum 1975.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and magic marker, right?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah. I know I and I had a couple of them, and I I I I I wish I had them actually. A lot of my albums left missing back in back in those days.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have a few downstairs. It's funny you mention it. I have a couple Van Halen's from the Spectrum.

SPEAKER_00: I had a Cat Stevens one believer. I like Cat Stevens was one of my first uh actually probably maybe the first person I ever bought an album was Kat Stevens. I I used to like uh listening and he was on the radio back then. He wasn't in uh pretty soft music, but uh he was the first person I really liked. Well uh I used to love his albums and buy them and yeah, I grew up with three older sisters, so I remember Yeah, worked my way up into like afterward and stuff like that, and then you know, then got into mortal rock and stuff and harder stuff as I got older.

SPEAKER_02: That's pretty cool. So you uh your first show toll, you you you brought your camera and so you were into photography at that point? Like even before you were.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's basically when I first started out. I my first things I used to first try it out my camera basically at a few Flyers games and they and you were allowed to bring it in at the Plyers games too. And in the seventies, you know, I took some photos, Pliers, uh I liked the Blackhawks my whole life, and so like when they played the Blackhawks, I used to go film uh, you know, take some photos. And then uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02: Stan McKita does I Stan McKeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: I got I think he's in the book actually. Yeah. Stan McKita, yeah. Seventies oh my god. Uh but I was you know, I'm a little older and uh when I first was watching hockey there were no Flyers. I know, that's Blackhawks Blackhawks were my team and then then the Flyers came in, so I kinda liked them both, but uh I always had uh the Blackhawks were always my favorite.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they were they were part of the original Phil. Yeah, original six something. Original six, right. And that's why the Spectrum was actually broke around in 67 because Philly got the uh franchise for the for the flyers. That's what the Spectrum was was doing because I think the Sixers were already playing I guess they were playing what conventional hall or something? Were they the Civic Center or something? Yeah, I don't know. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: I think that might be the same place, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's I think you're right. And then um, you know, the Sixers moved over after the Flyers got established with the Spectrum. But it's funny about the Spectrum because it broke around in 67 and the and the first show was um like a jazz concert, uh jazz festival, which was pretty cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Um I actually have that book, God bless the spectrum. I guess you probably know that book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I do too.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess uh I got that I would say it w about a year ago, maybe I ordered it online and get my used copy because I couldn't find it anywhere. And uh one of my photos was actually in there. I didn't even know it was in there.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00: But it has a credit that says Rich Fuchsel on it, which is pretty good.

SPEAKER_02: That is cool.

SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's that's why I noticed Chuck Darrow. He's well, his he has a lot of photos in there, and I didn't really like I said, I didn't know him. So I didn't really realize he had all those photos.

SPEAKER_02: I know the well the one great thing about uh the reason why I set this Facebook group up in 2010 when I joined Facebook is because um there was a lot of spectrum sites, but they all had they had all the events that people were posting, like wrestling and and uh flyers and I yeah, I'd see the random concert photo and I thought uh yeah, that's interesting. Why don't we do a group that's just uh dedicated to all you know all the concerts and then we'll just keep it that because that's what interests me you know the most.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah. And then absolutely, but the great thing is not only pro photos started going up with like you and Roger Barone and um Chuck Darrow, uh but uh also fans like myself who took and snuck photos back in the or cameras back in the little cameras in, yeah. They started posting them, and now you see all these these great photos from the fans' perspective. Um that uh you know that that they're they're finally like uploading and scanning and saying, now I got a place I can actually put this and then we can all comment on it.

SPEAKER_02: So I I really dig the uh the fan photos too, in addition to Yeah, I like to I like I like to see all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00: And you just think about it, if we didn't uh well, like you said, back like I was saying back then you were allowed to take them, but there was a certain point where you weren't allowed. So at least uh like I snuck my camera in and got a lot of photos that way, but I'm happy I did. You know, uh because now we could see them. Just imagine if we didn't have any photos from back then. I know, I'm always blocked at all.

SPEAKER_02: I never s I know, I never snuck a camera in back then. I didn't even thought of it, and I'm always thankful that other people did. I had a friend that tried to do it, and they these were the little Kodak, you know, pocket ones. Yeah, yeah, the little ones. I know what you mean. If you were able to sneak in a 35mm, then God bless you with this.

SPEAKER_00: That was the funniest part. I actually when I was writing a book, I I I would be laughing to myself how how funny it was because we used to put them down our pants, and then I even used to start sneaking in my big lens, which is about you know, eight inches long and a big round lens. I just shoved that down.

SPEAKER_02: My God. We used to get in, it was so funny. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the guys would catch us, you know, they would feel it, and uh and we were already in, you know, we were already past the guy. We gave him the big, we would just run away. And back then they never changed it because they couldn't leave the door, they couldn't walk away from where they were letting people in.

SPEAKER_02: Couldn't leave a post and people and kids in power.

SPEAKER_00: I got in a lot of times that way, running, but there was also uh you know, I would say I got it in maybe 75% of the time, and twenty-five percent. That's they would catch me and they would make me put it in the car.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna ask you, so if it got confiscated, um Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: They never took it from me and held it. They would just say, Take that out in your car and come back in the same door, they used to say.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's nice.

SPEAKER_00: But then I learned, I'm saying, Well, why do I get I still have my ticket, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, I don't have to go back in the same door. So I would try another door, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And uh sometimes I would get in that way. But sometimes though they did get your ticket and they said you have to come right in back in the same door. They figured it out, I guess.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: Yep.

SPEAKER_00: So I had to go back in the same door, they would check you again.

SPEAKER_02: That is funny. And that you know what that goes with everything else. We all tried to sneak in, you know. Yeah, food Whatever, yeah. You know what I mean? Whatever.

SPEAKER_00: But remember the trash cans when we were going in, they would have big giant trash cans and they would be filled with beer bottles.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you'd have to down your beer and then throw it out and get get patted down. Uh but meanwhile you got at like a fifth in your sock or something, you know.

unknown: That's right.

SPEAKER_02: It was all game. It was so much fun. You know. Uh you so at this time your first uh Spectrum show, were you going to the local clubs or were were you too young?

SPEAKER_00: Actually, I didn't get to start going to like the galaxy and all that stuff. I really didn't go till uh probably in the eighties, mid eighties early eighties or something. I started uh I found the galaxy. I was I lived actually like about two miles away from the galaxy, and I I I don't even uh tell you the truth. I guess I probably saw the sign, you know, that you had bands there, and I said, I'm gonna go check these bands out. So I started hanging at the galaxy mostly because like I said, I lived right up the street.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great club. I think I told you before I was uh my my local back then was uh the Empire. Yeah, the Empire, yeah. You know, they're they're they're almost like bookended clubs, you know.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, after the galaxy, after I got situated in the area, and then a lot of their band a lot of the galaxy bands I used to like, they would play at the Empire, so I would go over there and see them too.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'll ask you about that um in a little bit. I wanted to ask you about the photo process. And you mentioned you in your book that you you shot in slides. Um is that different than the three by five color photos on photo paper? That's different?

SPEAKER_00: No, no, I just did the slides and because I found out like when when magazines wanted stuff, they wanted you to send them a slide. And then they would work on that slide, they they could do what they had to do with the slide. In other words, the other uh if I did a negative, they didn't want negatives. Uh or which is like a strip of um, you know, photos would be on the same negative. They don't want that, they'd rather have a slide, and I think they make a negative out of that slide and that's what they use.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's easier, like you could hold the slide up, like if you grab the slide and put it near the light, you could see the photo, but on a negative, if you did that, you you would see part of the photo, but it wouldn't be it was different that way. But so they want they actually wanted slides. Uh so I found that out very, very early on that uh I started shooting slides. Plus slides were cheaper, I think, to develop and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, easier to um to to carry in the store. You know, they're just little tiny. Yeah, well my parents used to get the slides too. We'd have a projector and stuff, you know. They'd come out from a convention or something.

SPEAKER_00: I I'm not sure. I uh I I'll tell you the truth. After I was done my photography just say in 1990, I I know very little about the the modern photography. Yeah. I just didn't know.

SPEAKER_02: Well now it's everything's on your phone, right? So Yeah, everything's on your phone. It's digital.

SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I don't know anything about that, but Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02: Well well, your early captures in in the book are are great, the late 70s, the 80, 81. Yeah. Shooting bands like UFO and Ozzy with Randy. Um Genesis Yes Rush. Sabbath, you went to that show? VH opening?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. I went to that one, yeah, that was a good one. Van Halen really was there was a buzz that was like Van Halen and maybe they just had maybe Jamie's crying, maybe was on the radio at that time.

SPEAKER_01: Right.

SPEAKER_00: But there was a big buzz, like, oh, these guys are gonna be big and all. And then they opened for Black Sabbath, and then they really were good.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: So at this Black Sabbath away, but I was it was a good show for both bands. I liked that.

SPEAKER_02: I think even I think even Ozzy admitted that when he looks back. He yeah, they were kind of on the slide, still still formidable, but you know, they're just kind of at the end of their their thing. And Van Halen, uh, you know, 78, 77, 78. Oh man, they were powerful, yeah. They were young, hungry, you know. They were just they could have headlined right there, you know, and stuff just uh based on their first album and a couple of covers, you know. Yeah, that's right. So at this time you're still uh you're not am you're still amateur and you're just bringing cameras sneaking in, and then uh when did you go pro?

SPEAKER_02: When did you decide to make that uh living and lifestyle?

SPEAKER_00: Probably uh, let's see. I actually got my start, my professional start was actually I was sell I was selling photos that I took uh that I took from out in the crowd. And I actually sold a Van uh Van Halen was my first photo I ever sold. It was a Van H Eddie Van Halen photo.

SPEAKER_02: Yep.

SPEAKER_00: And they made it into a like a double page in a magazine. Umce I got that sold, uh the woman at that magazine, which was called Song Hits, uh she was like she was like, Rich, you r you really like my stuff. Uh even though I wasn't uh I wasn't I never even took a flash photo at that point. All my photos were taken out in the crowd with ambient lighting, you know.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: So then she was the first one that said uh that would help me. She goes, I'll help you start getting into the shows. Um you don't have to take your stuff in anymore. Which is uh and yeah, she used to publish my stuff every month. Uh so I was very lucky to hook up with that one lady and um she really helped me get going. So that was probably I don't know, I w I won't say like eighty-two or eighty-three I started uh stuff.

SPEAKER_02: Started like pro, like you started. Started good stuff in magazines and you started center stage photography, right? So you didn't now you need a company. Right? Now you need a company.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't know how to do it, you know. I figured that would be a good way. We yeah, we started uh like kind of a fake uh kind of a fake company because it was just me and another guy at that point who were trying to do these photos and we figured out if we had a company we contacted all the magazines and more professionally.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember copy of the slides. Yeah, you could make duplicates of the slides too.

SPEAKER_02: Which is pretty good, which is a good thing because and then you could send the same photo to different magazines. Yeah, and then they went on to uh what, publish more shots like Rat, Scorpions, and then your photos next to articles and in uh and songheads and that must have been thrilling.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my big start and then uh I got into the other magazines most of 'em. But they a lot of 'em, they there were certain magazines, they had their main you know, like Mark Oce, you know, the big the big photographers like the hip reader and that magazine. Uh you know, they used Mark Oce, uh, ninety percent of the pictures were his and another guy from you know, the Lazaure, he was from California. They were the big guys that were in all these magazines. So it was hard to get in them, but I would get photos here and there, but song hits they used me every month.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and plus maybe you got other shots that they didn't get and there was always different angles.

SPEAKER_00: There's always different you know, maybe the lighting was perfect and 'cause they were uh they were the big time guys, so they were shooting mostly all the big bands, but I used to that's another way uh that I got my start. I would shoot like opening bands and small bands and so magazines would say, Do you have this like a new band just starting out? And I would have it and they might not have it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: Right. That's a little miss.

SPEAKER_00: They were concentrated yeah, they were concentrating on the uh the the bands that already made it. I was yeah, I started going with the uh new bands and up and coming bands. That's how I got my in the galaxy like Cinderella and Ricky Fox, I had photos of them published before they got signed. You know, 'cause I had the early photos, so right, and that that always helps.

SPEAKER_02: That created buzz.

SPEAKER_00: That helped begin in yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: You know, pretty neat.

SPEAKER_00: So when I just started doing that, like in the galaxy, yeah, they used to like me over here, all the pants.

SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, man.

SPEAKER_00: Rich guy listened to the magazine and they couldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then hard and fast, local, right?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, then I yeah, Alex Richter.

SPEAKER_00: He was he was a good guy. I don't know if you ever remember met him or anything.

SPEAKER_02: I did uh met him a couple times, not back in the day, but um social things, and then I would always re uh talk to him off and on uh uh if I needed like verification on uh a band lineup or a date or something like that. I used a few of his pictures on my spectrum site on Facebook. Um, you know, really a great guy. But uh but hard and fast was uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00: You know I included him in the book and all uh and hard and fast because we met back then, like I'd be in the photo pit in front of the stage and he'd be right in the front row every time. He got some good seats, he was always there and we just started talking all the time and we got to be uh pretty good friends and yeah, a great guy. Yeah, he was a great guy.

SPEAKER_02: Knowledgeable and like you said in your book, he probably went to more shows than the bands themselves.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he used to tell me he was he was really good with the new bands too. He would say, Oh, there's this band coming out. Yeah, he would he would give me the heads up on certain bands that he thought were gonna do, and he was very good at that picking on bands. Yeah, that's a good thing. Yeah, he had his uh ear to the ground, you know, as far as Yeah, and his uh his little uh magazine fan theme was pretty good. Uh people used to love to check that out. And I had I had photos in there to use some of my photos sometimes.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's exciting for a new band, you know, low core, unsigned or not, you know.

SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, they loved that. And remember I used to be he like he would mail me those uh hard and fast. He would mail them to my house, like uh a hundred of them, and I'd go drop 'em off to the galaxy and buy them. Yeah, that's awesome. That was my two And the bands loved it.

SPEAKER_02: They'd read 'em. Stage.

SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah. Yeah, they they they they uh you put I used to put them down in the galaxy and if somebody they would see me putting them down. So you'd be like a swarm, come over and grab 'em, you know.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, at this time, um so you were able to acquire uh photo passes? Like when so now you're with song heads made. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. She helped me with all that. Uh because that's how we had to do it. We had to uh we had to call the record company when there was a contract coming. We would call Van Halen's record company or they would have a uh promotions firm that would be promoting them, and we'd have to call them and say, you know, I like to take photos of Van Halen when they're in Philly, and then and sometimes they would say, Well, what's it for? And isn't that so the song hits magazine, she would uh sometimes she would call or they would call her and and and verify that I was really doing it for the magazine, and or she would call for me and set it up.

SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's how it worked. And once you got on the you would get on a list and you pick up your photo pass at the uh we'll call window the day of the show and then they let you go in there and shoot.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so did you go through uh like a backstage door first and then go down to the pit?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we would be uh yeah, it was pretty neat. We used to be like in that I don't know if you remember, there was a like a ticket office in the back of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: I worked for Pizzo in the eighties, so I was all so you would pick up your uh if you had Will Call Window, uh kids uh what they were holding for you or something, or if you ordered uh I'm not exactly sure if they ordered online back then, I don't even think you could.

SPEAKER_00: But anyway, some people had tickets there. Maybe the band left people tickets sometimes, so you would have to go back there and pick them up. And uh sometimes i i I mean it was good, that's how I got in and did my uh photography, but uh sometimes I I was just thinking of this recently. I missed like like if there's two or three bands, sometimes I would miss the first two bands because I'd be they'd be making me wait in that room for my photo pass to come down. And so I missed a lot of opening bands.

SPEAKER_00: And I was just thinking I I see that a lot when people post the concerts or the and they put the opening bands, I'm like, damn, I missed that guy. I missed it. I missed Jeff Beck one time. I remember I and I missed a lot of the local bands when they used to open up the concerts, like Britney Fox played one time, they opened up uh Tangier, I think.

unknown: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And I would miss the opening bands. And that's the only thing I regret, you know, you know, 'cause I used to love to watch the music and and enjoy the music too. And sometimes I I would miss a lot because i you had to actually wait there for the manager to come down and hand you a photo pass and they didn't really care, so you know that you were sitting there waiting. So Yeah, and they figured sometimes it didn't come down at all. Sometimes you would get screwed, you'd be sitting there the whole time and and they would never bring it down and you'd be in trouble.

SPEAKER_00: You know, you couldn't shoot that night. That's crazy too much, but that has happened a few times.

SPEAKER_02: Right. So they weren't they weren't there at the window and you got your the you had to go into the holding area.

SPEAKER_00: Sometimes uh a lot of times, no, a lot of times they were at the window, but a lot of times that they weren't there, you had to call the you know, they the people there working there, they knew me at a certain point, and they would say, Oh, Rich, we'll call back there and find the manager. So you they had to track down the manager.

SPEAKER_02: It's not like nowadays with the cell phones and all, you know, they had to go find them and Yeah, and they probably figure, you know, you have a pass for the headliner and you know, they'll take their time getting down the pass to the guys because it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would uh uh I know at at some point I was getting passes for for the opening bands too, because uh because that happened. Uh I would try, but still even if I had a pass for the for the opening band, you didn't want to miss the guy bringing your other one down, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: Or you didn't want to go in, because then once you're in there, I don't think you I would have been able to get my other pass. So you kinda had to wait for the headliner to give you the uh photo pass before you went in.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well in your book these uh I was looking at these photo passes that you you uh published. Bands seem to take as much time in their artwork for the photo uh on these passes than they did with the album colors, I mean uh covers. I mean the dead is a the dead is a great example. Most of the are their artwork just on the passes and their movie posters.

SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: It's like modern and classical art, you know, and uh it was pretty neat.

SPEAKER_00: I I yeah, I don't know who did that if it was the band or the promotion company or record company probably made the photo passes or something, but uh that's why I put them in the book because they they're pretty colorful and uh creative. Yeah, and they were kind of like a little work art too. And I do have all that. I saved all of them and uh at a certain point, maybe about ten years ago, I laminated them all because they were starting to fray and they were starting to get weird from being forty or fifty years old, however old they are.

SPEAKER_02: That's awesome. I only have one pass myself. It's uh Spectr or it's uh Cinderella at the uh Allentown Fairgrounds backstage pass. Oh nice. And it's actually a sticker. Um so it's mine were stickers too. Maybe I will laminate that because it's starting to get a little rare.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they were all stickers and they yeah, they were starting to get weird, and I was like, I said uh I had them on like a album, like with a plastic thing over top, and that and that album was deteriorating. I was like, I better take care of these before so I took 'em all out of those things.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I did.

SPEAKER_00: I laminated 'em and cut them out so they're like one each one's separate, but they're laminated and cut out the shape they are. If it's a triangle one, I made the triangle cut. That's how I did it. So I got probably like uh I don't know, a hundred and fifty, two hundred of those things.

SPEAKER_02: That's that's pretty.

SPEAKER_02: Um so when you went in, they did they escort court you did they escort you to the photo pit or were you just all access to the stuff?

SPEAKER_00: And I would be there and they they'd just say there's usually two or three of us. Uh we would wait uh right there, uh, you know, at the woke hall when we would get our things and we would just hang around there, then they would come and get you and we would walk. There was a corridor that from the from that window that would take you backstage, you know, we would actually walk underneath the spectrum.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00: Uh down the corridor and then we would get to the backstage area. We would go past like where the dressing rooms were and all that. Then you keep going and eventually you would get to the stage.

SPEAKER_02: Were you allowed to uh walk us out?

SPEAKER_00: We used to go under the stage, which was pretty neat though. We would go under the stage and we'd come out in the photo pit. Pretty neat.

SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: I got one quick where where you want.

SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, absolutely. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00: A quick thing, which was kind of interesting. Um I d you know, like I never really told anybody this back in the day 'cause I don't want to start any trouble, but it was when Judas Priest was playing, they had another drummer under the stage playing.

SPEAKER_02: What?

SPEAKER_00: Is it a a weird story? Judas Priest, when they were playing on stage, you know, they had a drummer up there was playing. They had another drummer underneath the stage playing. I didn't take a photo of it or anything. It was just like the weirdest thing. I'm like, what's this guy doing under there playing?

SPEAKER_01: That's it.

SPEAKER_00: I don't know if they wanted to have a double a double drum sound or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_02: Uh the drummer was it was the uh turbo tour. So a mid eighties?

SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they did that all the time. It could have been just some kind of maybe the drummer wasn't feeling well up there. And the other guy was, you know, playing the same thing so they would get it, you know, he wouldn't mess up. I I you know, yeah, I never knew and I never asked anybody. I wonder if he was and I never told anybody. Wow. Huh? What was that?

SPEAKER_02: Well, I wonder if he was mic'd up under there and then he's got a big thing.

SPEAKER_00: And I kept looking I said he's playing with the with the band. Um which was it was very weird. It was the first time I ever saw anything like that. I thought was weird, but I didn't understand, you know. I never asked anybody or told anybody back then.

SPEAKER_02: We're breaking news here.

SPEAKER_00: I just thought it was really weird. Because we would go walk, walk, walk right by, and I go onto the stage all the time because that's like I said, that's how they bring us out. And that was the only time I ever saw a drummer under there playing.

SPEAKER_02: Yo, that is crazy. It's not like he's uh he's even on the stage, like off to the stage.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he wasn't on the stage, but you know, they had the real drummer was up there playing.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: I'm just assuming maybe they both played just to make it have a a better drum sound. Like like some bands have two drummers, you know, on stage sometimes, right? Like uh the Omer, maybe the Almer Brothers or something.

SPEAKER_02: 38 Special.

SPEAKER_00: Uh Grateful Dead or something. They used to have some of them. Uh I never saw them, but I I think they had two drummers.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they did. Yep.

SPEAKER_00: So um that's straight ahead.

SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm I'm just trying to do the math because I saw Priest in Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Turbo.

SPEAKER_02: Maybe earlier Lover. Maybe earlier. And they they were great. They were loud.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah. But uh Yeah, I mean, like I said, I don't think that I never heard anybody ever say anything about that. It could have been a one night that they did that for some reason. I don't ask. Don't ask, don't tell.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and yeah, I didn't want to get in trouble.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say, Oh, I would take a picture of it and you get drunk. I always was very good with my like camera. Like when I was backstage, I tried not to bother. Like if peop you could tell, like some of the bands didn't want to you know, when they were interacting with fans or doing this, like I didn't walk take pictures like that. I tried to keep my camera away. But I mean I got some backstage stuff if I was allowed. But um yeah, I tried to respect the bands out and I labeled their privacy a lot of times.

SPEAKER_02: Well, that was gonna be my my uh next question was uh were you allowed to shoot backstage?

SPEAKER_00: Like did you had to have permission or were you just uh that was something you had to set up like uh like I did a lot of backstage like group photos before they played. I would go in the dressing room and and I had that cool one, the Dio back there in the shower. Yes. With those white bricks.

SPEAKER_02: Uh lot of pictures from there. I've seen the Van Halen, I've seen Triumph, I've seen uh your yeah, your Dio one in the book. It was a shower.

SPEAKER_00: It's just it's just a neat place because there the dressing rooms are kind of um I have some pictures from the dressing room too. You could see like the flyers lockers behind them, you know, where they could dress. So I mean they're cool too, but I'm just saying uh like I would always try and find a place with a a nice background like that.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I used to bring my uh I had backdrops I would set up sometimes. And I would bring them for certain if I had permission. Yeah, that's another thing. Yeah, after people started knowing uh who I was, like after a few years I would try and get those backstage photos 'cause they would they they actually would sell so so easy. And they were kinda hard to get. So if you get like a cool one that the band just kinda casually backstage, they weren't like an album cover where they were all, you know, everything was perfect.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: Uh but it was like they were the cool shots. I used to love to do that.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the cool shots are when they're just acting natural.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like they'd be sitting there like you know, we do a group photo, but they're not like all dressed up. It could be either before the show or after the show and they're just kinda hanging around. Uh they le and most of them liked it, but I would never take a picture like that without asking me, you know, like like I have like some pictures that I've got like with a robe on after they played, like uh and I did uh a band photo and the one guy had his robe on, it was funny, and the other guy has like a towel wrapped over his head.

SPEAKER_00: They were funny shots, but I mean I would never do that unless I asked them, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: Right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: They might not want it people to see that, you know.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and but if they're game, they're like, uh I'm not gonna get back in my stage clothes, man. Just shoot.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I even got a picture of I did a band photo one time. It was funny, it's not in the book, but it was uh at the Chestnut Cabaret. I was doing some band photos, and I don't know how we wound up in the bathroom. The whole band was in the bathroom when one guy was taking a leak.

SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00: And I said, Oh I said, Can I get this picture? I mean I didn't get his privacy in the picture. But he was like taking a leak and the other guys were just standing that was so funny. And I took it and the guy taking the leaks like looking around back at me like it was a funny shot. But it it wasn't a f like a famous band or anything, but it was funny.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah. They're the best, like I said. Stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you do some funny shots. I am like I have a picture of Grant he Graham Barnett, he's the singer from uh Alcatraz.

SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm. Yep.

SPEAKER_00: Like a picture in my book. It's just a funny picture I put in there. He's standing in front of of the tour bus, which was a great adventure when I did these and he's just got his hand up like he's waving to me. It's just a funny to me it seems like the funniest picture because you don't it shows a different side of like a rock star.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean? Like they you're done they don't always at the pose like they're you know Yeah, it's for the professors. He was just standing there waving to me because he was a cool dude. I was talking to him and I said, I said, Graham, go over here, I'll take a picture.

SPEAKER_02: He's like, Hello, goodbye.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. He's actually coming to uh to the Landis Theater, Graham Bonnet uh his band, uh he's like seventy-seven now, but he's actually coming to the Landis Theater and uh he was a great guy. I loved the Alcatraz, it was one of my favorite bands.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he sang for uh Blackmore's Rainbow, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00: He did Rainbow, that one album which I loved, and he did uh m Michael Shanker group. He's four too.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's versatile. He could sing a nice guy.

SPEAKER_00: I hope I get uh that's in a couple weeks. I hope I get to meet him. I'm gonna try and get him to the sign some photos that I'm gonna bring with me.

SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, that's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I usually do that. Like I just got Pat Travers autograph. You remember Pat Travers back? Absolutely, yeah. Like I'll say, 'cause back then I really didn't get a lot of autographs because I didn't like bothering the guys back then. But now if I if they're playing, I bring like some photos from back in the day and I always give them some. I go, here I got these photos for you, and they look at them and they're like, Oh, these are so cool. And I think they design a few for me and then then you then they sign.

SPEAKER_00: I just got uh the guy from um George Lynch from the uh Lynch Mob and uh Doc, and he signed a bunch of things for me and uh Pat Travers, like I said. I'm hoping Graham Bonnet will sign some stuff too.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it must be a trip for them too. They see these photos and wow, they're gonna say they're like, Oh my god. Yeah. And uh like I said uh That's incredible. I mean seventy seven and still singing. All these old rockers are still going. It's unbelievable. Whatever they were doing back then seems to They could still do it.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like on that. I mean he can't he was like a screaming kind of a singer, so yeah. I know it's gonna be hard for him, but he still can do it 'cause I've seen him on uh YouTube and stuff.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: He still could sing, you know, it's not as powerful as it used to be, but it's still very good, I think.

SPEAKER_02: He d he was uh he was a screamer, but he had great tones. You know, he was in.

SPEAKER_00: I used to love him.

SPEAKER_02: I got a great rock picture.

SPEAKER_00: It's not in the book. I have so many photos, I you know, I couldn't put everything in the book. I got one where he's like he's on his knees, one hand's like on the stage and the other one he's screaming and I got like a nice um it's it's just a funny shot. Um not funny, it's just a cool shot, really. He's like on his knees and he had to get all the way down there to hit that note, like and you could see he's screaming, his neck is like scream.

SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get that one, yeah. I'm gonna get him to sign that one, I hope. Oh, that's very I know when he sees that he's gonna say it. I also have a picture of him in Alcatraz. Uh Ingve Malstein was actually in Alcatraz for one album.

SPEAKER_02: Yep.

SPEAKER_00: And so I actually have a photo of that. I think that's in the book, and uh that's kind of a rare photo, so I'm gonna definitely try and get him to sign that one.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well I wanted to ask you, um like what was your favorite band that look forward to? Like a as a fan and then also as a person.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually like believe it or not, like Alcatraz was one of my favorite bands. It's just like they're they weren't a super big band or anything, and I like I used to like Sabotage.

SPEAKER_01: Right.

SPEAKER_00: They were another hard rock band that I really, really enjoyed. Some of these bands maybe I liked them because I I got in on them early, like Sabotage. I saw the Chestnut Cabaret uh on their probably their first tour. And um, you know, I just made friends with the guys, they were fun guys and you know, you meet 'em and you have fun with 'em, drinking with them sometimes and you know, backstage and stuff.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then they get on a good tour and right.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, then I'd see them, uh, you know, I saw them at the spectrum, they got me backstage, they do stuff photos and stuff. They were and they say, Oh, Rich, how you doing?

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00: Like they remembered me and all, which is cool. Well, I uh but my favorite band, UFO.

SPEAKER_02: I mean Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: I loved UFO and they uh when I went to their shows, man, I I used to love to go to their concerts. Mostly we were at the tower too, most of 'em.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And you know, and I love I love Genesis and yes, all them bands.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love UFO.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: Michael Shanker, yeah. Like I have tickets to Michael Shanker coming up at the Keswick Theater.

SPEAKER_02: A friend of mine got tickets. Yeah, I saw that like on on one of the.

SPEAKER_00: I saw him a couple years ago there, and it was awesome. But this tour is gonna be all it's the UFO tour.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's gonna play all the UFO shows uh tour stores.

SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I can't wait for that.

SPEAKER_02: Unbelievable. Yeah, that's one of my favorite albums, the live album. Um, yeah, that was one of my first albums. God, he was on fire.

SPEAKER_00: Probably my first ten albums that I bought was that double live one. I love that. That's so awesome. I seen them uh I also saw them in the early uh early two thousands, maybe, when they go all got back together and they played that whole double album. Little club up in North Jersey. Uh that was probably one of my definitely one of my top five concerts. But I didn't even bring a camera. That's uh when I stopped shooting in the nineties, I didn't I completely stopped. I'm just going as a fan. Yeah, I always there as a fan.

SPEAKER_00: I had my shirt off. We were drinking like crazy. I was up there jumping around. My sister jumped up on stage, she got thrown out. Then she snuck back in. And she snuck back in. That's a my whole family like you up, uh like my brother was there that night, my sister was there, uh his girlfriend. Uh it was just a fun night.

SPEAKER_02: That is awesome. And this was the tower?

SPEAKER_00: No, that that one was uh up in that was called Birchville Nightclub. That was then when they got back together for the word tour. And they got the whole band back together. And it was like a little club. I was in the s you know, I was right in front of all the guys. Michael Shanker was right there. Oh man Yeah, that's and like I said, I was jumping around. I was completely soaked by the But guess what? I I yeah, that was my band and uh yeah, I really love them.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're doing. Yeah, I I love UFO, I love bands like that.

SPEAKER_02: No, go ahead. No, go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I was just gonna say Phil Mog from UFO, he's the singer. He has a great new album out. It's called Mog's Motel.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_00: Give that a little plug. Uh if you like UFO, you would you would love this.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'd love that. So good.

SPEAKER_00: I've been I've been listening to it uh it came out just say like six months ago. All right, cool. I've listened to it so much, it's a lot of good songs.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna check it out. Did you ever speaking of the tower, did you ever shoot over there? Were you just strictly Yeah, I did a lot.

SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah. I because I saw your USO shot. Yeah, that's from the tower. Right. I did a lot at the tower. Tower was uh a little harder to get the camera in, but I still I still got it in there many times. Nice. But the only thing is it was a lower place.

unknown: Right.

SPEAKER_00: So if you got caught, like sometimes I'd be taking a picture and the even then. The one story is Chrissy Hine from the Pretenders. She hated people taking her picture. So I so I was about ten or fifteen reds back and uh and she and she actually looked over and saw me taking a picture. So I I'd have one picture of her because she started yelling, There's a guy with a camera to see.

SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00: So I had to get my camera and I shoved it under my shirt and I just sat there. I had one pic I took one picture of her, and that's the only picture I took the whole concert because I didn't want to get uh kicked out, you know what I mean? So I hid the camera and I didn't take it out the rest of the time. But uh but uh a lot of times yeah they would look at you and they would point to you sometimes like the the g the fans on stage 'cause they know you weren't allowed to have cameras. So if they saw me with my thirty five millimeter of course I could never use the flash because I would get caught right away.

SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: They would sometimes some of them didn't care. You know, a lot of them didn't care. They would see me shooting like UFO. I I would be shooting them General Giant I used to love them too.

SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: I'd be shooting them. They didn't care. Uh but there were certain bands that like Pat Benatar with stuff too. She didn't want no camera. She goes like nobody Yeah, she used to say stuff. I saw her at the tower. I saw a lot of bands at the tower I probably just as many shows as I saw at the spectrum. Yeah. I used to love the tower too.

SPEAKER_02: And you're right because it's more intimate and you can get you know kind of caught like at least at the spectrum if you're you know ten rows back you're kind you're in the middle. Like you're just in a CSC of people up front. But um yeah the tower I mean I saw a lot of shows at the tower and you're right uh I love the tower. UFO did you ever see UFO get to see that's my big report they were uh they were so good there because it was uh like you said more intimate and uh yeah and the sound good good sound there too yeah great absolutely that's all triumph there uh second row I mean it was just oh no blew me away saw guns and roses there I was at that one I actually have a photo of Guns and Roses from that show.

SPEAKER_02: Yes I saw that and that I looked at that and I thought they they were great that night I thought they were great remember they came on real late?

SPEAKER_00: Yep right? Didn't they come on like eleven o'clock or something crazy. Probably but like we're young real late I remember standing there for like did I have a I might have even had a I I think I had a photo pass at that point.

SPEAKER_00: I was just standing there on my camera yeah and I was like where are these guys? What are they doing? But I knew they always look like to play late.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah that was modus operandi back then.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah they came out pretty late. It might not have been eleven but they came out pretty late.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah and they played like two two and a half hours they headlined and uh I thought they sounded great. I mean they seemed to and then they went out on tour with uh Arassmith shortly after that and I saw them in ninety one at the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00: And they're at the big place, yeah. Yeah that's I used to like catching bands on the way up if you could catch them at the tower which was cool. I never saw Arismith there but I I saw them at the spectrum many times.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah I saw them but uh I one time I actually I saw KISS at the tower one time and but I didn't photograph uh they didn't let me photograph actually uh but I uh I photographed Accept that night I think Accept was the opening band. Oh wow but I wasn't allowed to take Kiss photos.

SPEAKER_02: That was the thing about KISS back then um they always took out these up and coming bands. Um Rush was really you know they take out b you know bands like that. Um get going so uh well listen speaking of Cinderella when they got signed to uh Mercury you were you were hired according to the book you were hired to shoot what promo shots of their video shoot for Shake Me?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah I did the uh yeah I was just like the photographer there uh you know go take they did the the record company said go just you know just be there for that day, do you know take pictures of them making the video and stuff like that. Uh but it wound up I when I went there they wanted uh to do a a poster the day of the shoot which I did which was pretty neat. Uh I took like a I had my yellow backdrop with me and I took the uh photo of Cinderella uh that's in the video when they pop out of the wall on that first video shoot.

SPEAKER_00: That's your f yeah they actually did that it was it's amazing. They we made that poster the day of the of the of the video shoot.

SPEAKER_02: What you had to print it right there?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah I had to take it. I had to go to the hour photos place while they were doing their other stuff which they were filming the stage, you know, doing the video part. Oh my gosh. And then I brought it back and then the whoever was working there, the graphic guy, he he put the Cinderella thing on it and he used it. Yeah in one day. That's how they did it.

SPEAKER_02: It's pretty cool. I mean you got that shot it's it's not like they saw it. They were like oh this isn't good we gotta do it again. I mean you got it one shot took took it every hour photo. Yeah it took about twenty photos just say then I took the hour photo and they uh which was up which that was a whole big thing because I was up in that Pulsations which somewhere up in uh northeast Philly maybe I didn't even know the area you know and I don't don't I had I barely knew the area and I had to go find a one hour photo place and uh somehow I did it crazy days isn't it I mean nothing was interesting back then you know now I got it was a good crowd came out like to be in the video they probably had a couple hundred people there I guess came to to get in the video crowd and it was pretty neat and they did shake me they kept playing it over and over and filming it and stuff yeah I used to see them that were in the video they were there fun day yeah I saw them uh we used to follow them around in like eighty five eighty six I had I had their demo tape and we'd see them at the um yeah a lot right yeah the umpire they practically own that place about that one when they came were you there that night it was Cinderella and poison at the Empire no that was a good one where was I I don't know that's what I say sometimes did you go to that UFO when they opened up for Black Sabbath I'm like no when the freak was where was I must have been down the shore or something I don't have a slight how did I miss them and I don't miss stuff I know I missed a lot of stuff because the public like you know we didn't have the internet you didn't know the tour dates you know if you missed the ad in the paper you could miss something you know yeah exactly and uh how did I miss UFO and Black Sabbath to my paper pants I guess so many shows I missed it.

SPEAKER_02: And uh I'm always like how come I didn't have a f at least one friend we all like the same music that said hey nobody told you who's the Colts playing tonight you want to go and or next week yeah and well so no I never that that would have been a great poison and Cinderella one that was uh man that was awesome at the Umpire?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah at the Empire Poison had their stage set up that's in my book too you'll see if a photo there poison when they were pretty young you could see they were young. Yeah still from our area mid and uh let's see the Cinder I think Cinderella might have played first and then Poison because 'cause Poison was probably headlining 'cause maybe they were signed at that time. I'm not sure if Cinderella was at that time but it they were close to being signed.

SPEAKER_02: Uh you listen the local scene back then I mean uh it rivaled the Sunset strip I think I mean our type of wet see good bands.

SPEAKER_00: All the bands were good. Like I used to go to Galaxy I never said oh this band sucked they were all good back then. They were all really good and they were similar music so if you like that if you like that kind of music they were Shotgun Wedding and White Fox and um Heaven's Edge obviously a little bit later.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah they came a l yeah a little later right around ninety That's about when I stopped uh I never had any Heaven's Edge photos but that's right when I uh stopped shooting right around nineteen ninety so well you mentioned in your book the industry of rock uh photography what changed um maybe in the mid eighties, late eighties Yeah well near most yeah it started changing and uh by the nineties I was done.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah well one of your photopaths I should shoot like we were allowed at certain point we were allowed to shoot uh you can go in there they get a photo pass, you could sh sit there the whole show and sh shoot. They didn't mind it. Then they started coming up with these things. Oh you can only shoot the first two songs. Right and it was like it was a lot of trouble to go just to shoot first two songs. And uh you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00: get into them shows and then when they started cutting you down I didn't like that so that's basically when I started getting kind of phasing out of it.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah losing it yeah one of your uh photo passes in your book is the uh pass for Van Halen. Not sure what uh tour what what uh what it is but uh notates on the pass first three songs only. Yeah I mean you know what does that mean obviously then the then the obvious Yeah after we were in there for three songs we'd be in the pit then like they'd escort somebody from the band will be there, yeah then we go under the stage again and we used to go backstage uh they take you out that way then there was one I used to go up in the press box.

SPEAKER_00: There was one door where you could go up and the guy in the press box used to always let me in there. So I would I would watch the rest of the show up up in the press box.

SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's cool. At least you got at least you got that and you didn't they didn't like escort you out there.

SPEAKER_00: Because they would give us tickets. We would have tickets we could sit um but uh they you know the record company would give us tickets too with the photo pass so we could go up there and sit in the crowd but I always had like a camera case, a pretty big case at that time. So I used to just try and get in that press box and I met some guy Tony, he was like the head of security and I met him, he was an another uh you know Italian guy so I was an Italian guy. So we made friends, you know Hey Paz on then he would let me in Oh come on up Ah that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: He let me sit in there as long as there was room, you know. And he'd sit in there. Sometimes there'd be some celebrities in there too like I one night one time I was in there two guys from the Scorpions were in there. Oh nice and they weren't playing at night. They were just showed up to the show and I remember it was the cars concert. They actually uh came to see the cars. So they were up there in the press box and I said hey you know I I talked to them and stuff. I knew their manager which was a he was a Philly guy.

SPEAKER_00: And his name was Robert Steinberg, I remember him. He was their manager so I saw him and he I said, Hey Rob you know we were talking I actually snapped a couple I asked him if I could take a couple of photos up there and my uh wife was me at the time. And uh so I got a picture of her with the two Scorpion guys. When they were first starting out and even even at that point when they were pretty p popular, they didn't speak much English.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah at that point and but they sing in English.

SPEAKER_02: Right. Well I wanted to ask you so the f w what's the difference between the first three songs and shooting the whole show. I don't like what why would they why did they do that?

SPEAKER_00: Like what yeah I don't understand. I guess maybe I guess some of the people I don't know, they used to say like the flash might be bothering the guy or something.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: You know the flash some people didn't like the flash but then it actually got to a point where there's some of them guys some of the bands were saying no flash. No flash and then it got down to uh one song or two songs. It actually got down to that low and when they started doing that like Madonna believe it or not. I I took a picture of Madonna 'cause she was gigantic and uh yeah that was a weird show wherever that one was I guess it was the Spectrum um from what I remember. But that was one song, no flash.

SPEAKER_00: And they made you take your flash they actually all the and there was a lot of photographs like fifteen or twenty photographers. We were in this room and they said leave all your camera equipment here, just the camera you're taking out make sure there's no flash they actually checked that you didn't have a flash so yeah we went out there for one song I think it had g really good I got two good pictures because she was running around, you know how Madonna was not standing still. Not making it easy I got two really good pictures and I I s the one was like my best seller because I actually got a really good crisp one with nice and focused which was hard to do.

SPEAKER_02: That's yeah there you go.

SPEAKER_00: I sold that to like ten different magazines uh and it was like magazine covers and all it was a really good shot. Yeah so I mean I it worked out but But you had to work for it. Yeah I mean and then that that was the only one actually too when we were done we had to leave. They we didn't get tickets for that one. I guess we got sold every decade probably so we were done and they packed us up and they walked us back out the tour. Yeah fun stories. It was a fun time. That's why I wrote the book a lot of you know it's a very interesting time.

SPEAKER_00: I think that's why I like people when people when they read the book they usually say a very interesting book, you know, they they didn't know a lot of things about it. Even my mom my mom my my mom, she passed away since then but anyway she got to read one of my rough drafts um before I had it printed. You know, I had like a a soft edition printed up just to see how everything would look. So she read that she said I had no she didn't even know I was doing photography. Oh my gosh I don't even think she knew but I would show her pictures I'd say look I when I had pictures published and I used to show my dad he was real proud of it.

SPEAKER_01: That's great.

SPEAKER_00: You should you know see my name in the magazine but they didn't really know that much about you know I never talked to them that much about how I did it or anything. My mom was like I didn't know any or you know hardly any of this stuff. I said well you know Yeah good for you.

SPEAKER_02: I mean that book must have been a like a labor of love.

SPEAKER_00: Was it fun remember we're going through those thousands of slides and photos I mean I wrote it ever in a in uh you know just say a month or two but it just took forever to put it together and then everything kept changing as we were doing it. You know, the internet and the computers would get upgraded, upgraded so you we could do things differently and we kept redoing it over and over. Another guy helped me do it. My uh brother in law Justin helped me do the put the book together but I mean we d we we did it about like ten times it seems like we redesigned it and then we finally got it out.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah and you got it right. I love it.

SPEAKER_00: I I flip through it all the time and then then I I always see something everybody tells me that too yeah it's something that you're not going to just look at one time.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah I always see something new.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah I read it I read your book for the tenth time people tell Yeah. I mean not that the reading is is is fun too but it's just the photos I I l I look through it all the time too. I got it sitting on my table.

SPEAKER_02: I love the the process of uh just I don't know your journey from amateur and then all of a sudden you're the the rock photographer because back then I mean you just y you know it was a process.

SPEAKER_00: It's not like today where you can figure it out like I said I figured it out luckily uh just by talking to people but but but the photographers most of them didn't want to they don't want to give it away the info because you know they didn't want more people in there, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: They're jockeying for only one one girl who was a photographer and she was she was nice and um I talked to her a few times. She explained a lot of stuff to me got me going.

SPEAKER_02: That's nice.

unknown: She helped me out too.

SPEAKER_02: Well even for the music fan it's it's interesting. You don't have to just be from the Philly South Jersey area. Although that you know is going to bring back you know the great memories but um I mean your your book captures all the bands you know national um because I always say that even though we're talking about the spectrum these bands were on tour to the the different cities. So if anybody sees your pictures from the spectrum they're gonna remember like oh I saw this tour in Detroit you know when I was living in you know Michigan or something.

SPEAKER_02: This is the same tour that came through.

SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times the bands wear the same stuff over and over you know they might have two or three outfits just say.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And they change them, you know what I mean? But you could see the exact same uh stuff that that they wore in Philly they might have worn in another city.

SPEAKER_02: Right and the set list stayed the same yeah you know this this the set pieces the stage when they were doing those videos on M T V they had certain outfits and then you'd see them in comfort in concert and they were wearing the same things as the video you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00: Like that was their out they were known for their clothing like you know what I mean it was their look. And they might had a few different ones that but they were similar kind of like yeah I remember custom made and they're like hey I'm this is what I'm wearing. I'm gonna wear it every I'm gonna wear it. It costs a lot of money that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02: Well listen I I think we'll wrap it up if you have anything else uh you want to relate? You got any stories? Anything you want time's yours. Yeah no Rich we appreciate taking the time to dive deep into the world of rock photography and I thank you for spending it with me. All right thanks Bob all right you got it Richard bye bye thank you for joining us I appreciate tuning in and your continued support please subscribe and feel free to leave a review. In this episode we talked about the world of rock concert photography experience and thrill up for natural publications also local publications again our website photos

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