The Concert experience featuring veteran music and entertainment journalist Chuck Darrow!

SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody, welcome back to the concert room. I'm your host Bob Hill. The Concert Room is a podcast session dedicated to the concert experience inside the legendary Philadelphia Spectrum Arena. The Spectrum held numerous performances and concerts over its 40 plus years of existence, earning the nickname The House That Rock built. And in today's session, we have the pleasure of welcoming friend and veteran journalist Chuck Darrow. Chuck has a wealth of knowledge and experience in the local and national music industry, and he has been covering the fellow Fiat Atlantic City entertainment scene for almost 50 years as a journalist and a broadcaster.

SPEAKER_01: At one time or another, he held the positions of movie critic, music critic, theater critic, television critic, casual dining, and fine dining critic, and radio columnist, and also hosting his own shows on various radio stations in the Philadelphia market. Chuck was often wearing these multiple hats simultaneously, and today we'll ask him to put on his music journalist hat since we're talking about music and concerts. Currently Chuck is the casino columnist for the Sun Newspaper Group of Southern New Jersey and Shore Local News, Atlantic City Area's leading weekly.

SPEAKER_01: He is also an in-demand freelance writer. This is an incredible career and lifestyle. I will post all of uh Chuck's links in the uh show notes. Uh so let's dive into this uh episode. Chuck, welcome to the concert room and congratulations on a long and wonderful career in journalism.

SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for uh for thinking of me. And uh let me thank you, as I did I think before we started, but but um if it was if it's on here, I'll do it again. Thank you for that Spectrum page. That is uh of the my favorite uh Facebook page of all. You know, I'll not let them smoke up your skirt because of of you know the experiences I've had at the Spectrum, you know, the concerts, that is.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so thank you for that. Thanks, thanks for it. I'm glad that really took off. Um it's a shared, yeah, it's it's a shared experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And clearly, clearly it was a profound experience for us. It was really meaningful in our lives. I mean, that's the whole point. Yeah, that that it wasn't, you know, going to a concert, big deal, it's a trifle, doesn't really mean anything, but no, it meant the world to not just me, but to all of you know, to all of us who, you know, hit the hit up the page.

SPEAKER_01: Well, let me ask, because you wore so many hats, which one would which is your favorite? Which one?

SPEAKER_00: Music be because it was me, you know. It was I was so much about music, so I mean and that's what I aspired to to become a music writer, that I could again I could get to see all the shows and get all the free albums and so on. But the truth is that by the time I was in my mid-30s, uh I sort of had had my fill, and I started to really concentrate on the casinos, the entertainment in the casinos, where I got to see, you know, it wasn't so much that I got to see Bob Dylan in Atlantic City or the Pretenders or any other, you know, number of rock bands.

SPEAKER_00: I got to see the the classic entertainers, the you know, the Tony Bennett's, the Frank Sinatras. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Well, let me ask you, you started on your music journalism career at Temple University, where you wrote for the student-run newspaper Temple News, writing your own rock music column. And then in 1980, you began your professional career writing for the Philadelphia Journal as the music writer/slash critic. Uh, so what made you decide that this is going to be your chosen profession?

SPEAKER_00: It just made sense on so many ways to get into it. And I said I I really wanted to write about music because I wanted to go to as many shows as I could, and I couldn't afford it. So, how do you do that? You get in for free. How do you get in for free? Well, this is one way of getting in for free and getting the best seats, too. That was the other thing. You know, writers get uh, I mean, at the tower, I I don't think I ever sat anywhere other than like 10th row center. I mean, sometimes maybe it was eighth row center.

SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, and then you have an all-excess pass, you can go backstage.

SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, you know what? You know what? I I mean, I did get my share, but by and large, I didn't really enjoy I didn't make it a point to try to get backstage because uh, you know, early on the first few times, yeah, I mean I was like the goal, oh my god, I got a backstage pass. But I would go out back there, and basically I would be, I wouldn't I it just seemed to me that most mostly I was in the way of people who had jobs to do.

unknown: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And it was, you know, yeah. I mean, it wasn't like the the rock star, it wasn't like Rod Stewart was, oh, Chuck, come on. Hey, great to see you.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly. So, so while I certainly, you know, hadn't had plenty of backstage access, uh, there were mostly it was reasons, like because I I was going to do an interview, you know, in the dressing room kind of thing. But but but by and by and large, uh I you know that that wasn't my my scene uh really. After again, it was in the very beginning because it was wow, backstage pass. But you know, after six months or a year, I realized what's the point?

SPEAKER_01: You know, and there's not a lot of things for you. I mean, other than maybe a quote or something or background you want to get rid of it. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00: Right. But it it's not like Ian Anderson's gonna like, you know, say, Johnny, wow, I'm so glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: I got things to say. But but yeah, but the access, yeah, uh, you know, by and large, was there uh most of the time. But not but uh not as a as a matter of course every day. Because I just wasn't wasn't not interested in it because you said I just felt, you know, I didn't really know uh, you know, there were strangers because they would, you know, they the bands weren't from around here, they didn't know me, and I I just felt like I was in the way more than anything else.

SPEAKER_01: So yeah, well at this time were you uh uh critic or viewer? Yeah, both, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, both. I mean I I did interviews, I would preview shows by you know, mostly mostly, but not always, but mostly I would do phone interviews so I could do advance to the show, and then I would go to a show to review it.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. That's awesome. So this is uh late 70s, early eight.

SPEAKER_00: Early 70s. Well, mid 74. I started in 74, and I was and then I was a music writer in the market, in the Philly market, somewhere um from 74 through um 99. Right.

SPEAKER_02: So you guys have to do that.

SPEAKER_00: And I right. Well, I mean, I I I I didn't get I didn't start getting getting paid really until 80. And that was there was uh the fourth paper called in town called the Philadelphia Journal, right? Which was a tabloid uh paper, if you know what a tabloid, daily news, you know, New York Post, lots of crime, lots of sex, lots of of celebrities, a lot of sports.

SPEAKER_01: I remember that. Um downtown. Sometimes we'd go to shows downtown and I would say it. Like maybe in South Street or something. I'm trying to.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, uh possibly. I mean they were there were boxing, you know, what they call honor boxes all over the city. Yeah, they were yellow with and the logo was uh basically kind of orange and and uh and uh white. Yep. Um that was my first full-time job. They hired me as a music writer. Um, and then I went uh uh in the paper folded in 81, at the end of 81. So I was there just about two years, and then I I didn't have any writing job. I I until 85 when I got back into it at the Courier Post over in Cherry Hill.

SPEAKER_00: And I was at the Courier Post until 2008, where I went to the Daily News. But um I was um but I was like you know, freelancing and I was I was writing music somewhere, you know, weeklies, whatever.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: Uh until the courier, and then I was a music writer for 25 years. Yeah, a great career and journey. I know.

SPEAKER_01: It's all when it's fun. I mean, that's that's what counts. Well that's it, yeah. What did you ask in circle back? Concerts got big business. So when do you think it became big business, like expensive?

SPEAKER_00: It was sometime in my I would say 77, 70, maybe 76, uh, when when Wings toured, that was like a really big deal. Uh but by the by by the late 70s and early 80s, it was then it it was a real industry. And I, you know, if you if if you want to put sort of like a marker on it, the Stones Tour in 81.

SPEAKER_01: Right.

SPEAKER_00: The the tattoo you tour.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And I say that because it was it was sponsored by Jovan, which was a a fragrance company, maybe it still is. And it was the first time that a a rock and roll tour had a corporate sponsor.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, underwritten by right.

SPEAKER_00: Exactly. And that and and that seemed to be, you know, the inflection point where it really got out of hand and became, you know, really, you know. I mean, the music and the recorded music industry, you know, in the early 70s might have been, you know, a couple of hundred million dollars, and by the end of the decade, it was like a four billion dollar industry. So, as I said, yeah. So I mean, I don't know if those numbers are exact exactly accurate, but they're in the ballpark. So, yeah, so it it just something changed um sometime.

SPEAKER_00: And I think disco the disco explosion, it it I don't I can't say for sure that that that had any direct impact on on it. Okay. But it absolutely coincided. The rise of when when you know when in 78, 79, when like you know, 7 Eleven and General Motors were doing disco themed commercials. Right. That's yeah, I think you know, that's when uh it seems to me, you know, again, things started really to to change and the it kind of lost that that underground alternative vibe and it became you know and also then you know it was a different type of person, although it was definitely audiences got tended seemed to get older and a little more upscale.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00: Uh because amongst the people who were going, yeah, right, because ticket prices were were climbing.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because the cup the company underwriting it needs to have a return, the band needs to have a return. Exactly. So they pass it along to right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: Of course, yeah, right, ticket prices got higher. But I said you know, if you have to pick a specific moment, it was probably the Stones Tour in '81 that changed that.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And that was uh I I went to that, so that's at JFK. Yeah. Um first to first uh show of the tour. Yep. First two, yeah. Yeah, and uh it was a Friday, and I'll never forget we skipped we had tickets and uh skipped school that day because that was a September day. Um my parking car at the high school, and then we piled in and and uh went down, had a great time. I kept running into uh like schoolmates, like when we'd walk around in between I'd be like, hey, you skip school too.

SPEAKER_00: That's cool. From the time that they announced Jagger came to JFK Stadium to announce the tour.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: At a press conference in 81, you know, in like I guess it was August of 81.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And between that, you know, probably about a month out. And so between the the him announcing the tour and the show, it's the first show itself, I mean, I I probably wrote 15 articles, including probably eight or ten or twelve. Um the journal partnered with MMR to do, we did a uh supplement, a give it a ticket giveaway, and and then we we did a supplement, which I pretty much wrote by myself. Um so that was, yeah. So by the time that show could come off, uh you know, it I I was like, you know, tattooed you to have.

SPEAKER_00: But what I did was the coolest thing that I think from from covering that whole time was I was uh I became very, very, very close to a guy named John John Bloodwell, who was the promotions director at WMMR in uh. And Blood was the world's biggest Stones fan. I mean, basically, there was there were two bands, as far as he was concerned, there were only two bands in the world, the Stones and not the Stones.

SPEAKER_00: And he somehow, because he worked at MMR and he had connections, especially with the Stones camp, he got a hold of uh an advanced cassette. It wasn't even the album, it was just a cassette of Tattoo You, which he he made me a copy, and I I I published from what? I mean, uh, you know, for all intents and purposes, I published the first review of Tattoo You in the world.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: That's awesome. Yeah. Uh you published that in the journal? Yeah, the Philly Journal, yeah. Okay. The press box in the uh 70s. So talk about that. Because what were you doing at that junction? You were at the Courier Post? Like is this. No, no.

SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, the press box, I mean I mean again, I I covered music on a day on a weekly, you know, regular basis somewhere for some publication in the market between 74, except for 80. Well, there was a couple years in the year after the journal folded, but essentially 80, 74 through 99.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_00: So we're talking about those three decades. The spectrum press box in those days, the 70s and 80s and 90s, was the coolest hang in the city. No doubt about it. I bet. Um, first of all, the seats were the best because, like you said, they were at the very top of the first section of the spectrum. They were about a third of the way back, so you had perfect unobstructed view of the stage. Um, and it was basically they were they were just folding chairs that ran the length. And the press box was probably, I mean, it was probably a good hundred feet long.

SPEAKER_00: It ran a pretty a pretty good chunk of the of the spectrum. And uh, if you're looking at the stage, it was on the left side. There was another, there was an identical box on the right side if you're looking at the stage. So basically, what you had at any concert, regardless of who it was, you had, and at the time there were, you know, a good 12 or 15, counting the weekly papers, the Philly Dailies, the Suburban Daily. So you had a good fifth, and then uh 15 or so newspapers. So all the writers were there.

SPEAKER_00: And then you had the disc jockeys, so you know, Ed Shockey was always there, Michael Thierson was always there, um, like that. You had the record company people, right? You know, who were there when when their acts were playing there. And it was just one big, they say, a schmooze. You just you, you know, you saw they and we were all, you know, it was all kind of a fraternity. So we would, and there was a so like you you would enter into the press box from the the main concourse. So like you can picture the main entrance on Patison Avenue, right?

SPEAKER_00: Of you know, the glass doors. You walk through them, and if you walk through the one right in the middle, because there was a bank of them, right ahead on the other side of that concourse with 20 feet or so, was the a door which entered which was the press box door. And then, but you walked in, there was between the seating area and the concourse was a very tight foyer, you know, little entry room. And that's where most of us, especially when when there were acts on, nobody wanted to see at the opening acts, we would just hang there and just you know, gossip and talk about you know the the what were the new albums that came out.

SPEAKER_00: Hey, have you heard this band yet? You know, you definitely and and it was just so much fun, it was just so cool. That does so and then you had the and and then as a bonus, you never knew who who who was gonna show up in the press box. So my I mean when when Elton played with it when it when Elton uh played in July of 76, sitting next to my girlfriend and me were uh Elton John were Elizabeth Taylor and Michael Jackson. Wow, nice. Uh Springs, I remember it was probably December 75. Um Jay Giles band, he was married to Faye Dunaway at the time, yeah, the actress.

SPEAKER_00: So she was there. And Springs, it was 75 because Springsteen played the tower, did like five or six nights at the tower the last week, like the 26th through New Year's Eve. And he played like the 26th, the 27th, the 28th, the 30th, and the 31st, I think. And the 29th was the Jay Gauss concert. So there all of a sudden, who walks into the press box was Bruce and Clarence.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: And then there was always athletes there, you know, Eagles, a lot of Eagles showed up. Uh I I remember. Um, so it was it was just it was it was just so cool. I mean, I I you know, yeah, it was an elitist, my God, yeah, with a capital E. But it was but it was just such a a fun place because you said you sometimes you didn't have to go see the show. You just went just to hang out with your friends. Right. You know, and and it was yeah, you pick up you pick up uh you know news because uh I was writing kind of a newsy notes column.

SPEAKER_00: I w I was doing reviews, but I was you know, just uh so-and-so is the NASA tour, so-and-so's coming to you know to the tower and you know, in July, whatever. Yeah, and you know, like I got a lot of info there. And it it was just uh it was it was just the the best. It was just so much fun to uh to be there.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00: And um I I think I missed that most more than anything else about covering music. I just miss hanging out in the spectrum press boxes.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, catching up with industry. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, you know, telling jokes and and just talking you know about your vacation. It wasn't just about the music biz, but it was primarily, you know, a lot of gossip, a lot of gossip.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, I believe it.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Um, and it was it was just it was just a really interesting scene up there, uh, which is a a lot of fun to be part of.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a great thing about the spectrum because it was intimate. Like everything was just it felt like a small room, but it was uh a hockey arena. Right but it just everything was just uh very intimate. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I I was gonna say I worked for Prism. Um I was a freelance in in television back in uh late eighties and early nineties, and um so I I would walk around the spectrum a lot and just have some great memories. But empty, yeah, it looked really big for its time. You fill it with people, you put a stage there, and it was just very intimate.

SPEAKER_01: And acoustics were great.

SPEAKER_00: And even the even the corridors, you know. I mean, again, it was only maybe twenty feet, whereas at the Wells Fargo, they're like fifty feet wide.

SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah. Yeah. Uh the same thing. When I was out in LA uh working in TV, I worked at the forum a lot, so the LA Forum, the old LA forum, sure sort of built the same way. I mean, it was just intimate. You know, even the comp courses were smaller. Yeah. And just uh you know, uh and that lent to uh even at the spectrum, like it's it's a big concert and everything like that, it just felt more intimate because the room was smaller. It just felt small.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you know, let's talk a little about the actual concerts because this was a time where music was a lot more what's the word eclectic in terms of the bills. So, you know, now when there are you know there are tours, the music is uh the the acts are kind of in the same general area of music.

SPEAKER_01: Right.

SPEAKER_00: You know, so so if it's you know if it's uh uh a pop act, then yeah, other pop acts are gonna are gonna open. If it's uh you know, jam band, they're probably gonna have other jam bands on the bill. If usually jam bands don't, but if they do, it's gonna be a band like that. But back in the day, and I you know sound like the you know, all the old geezer that I am, but back you know, especially in the 70s, especially, I mean, they were just so again, so eclectic. So you would see like um T-Rex, you know, like pretty much the progenitor of Glamrock, you know, where Bowie got most of his ideas from in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00: He obviously took it a lot further, but he was influenced primarily by Mark Bowlin and T-Rex. And and they were on the same bill. One uh one this was this was a tower bill, but they were on a bill with um with Blue Oyster Cold, which you know, one of the like the proto-heavy metal bands. Right. And at the spectrum, they played with Mahavishnu Orchestra.

SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00: Which yeah, which which was you know from Yeah, and and it was one it was and there was another one, I I think it might have even been the Kinks. It was a dance concert in the late 70s, and and it was the Kinks headlining, and Peter F uh no uh King Crimson was also on the bill. Jeez. You know, like the ultimate prod band. And and that's what made it, you know. Um who yes, who who did the first time I saw yes in August of 72 with the spec show. Who who opened who's the first of the three bands? The Eagles.

SPEAKER_00: Wow. You know, and and and and it was just so much more interesting to you know, because you were exposed to to different types of music than you than you, you know.

SPEAKER_01: That's the way the seventies were too. Yeah, exactly. So had so many different kinds of music. And then you had Red Hit Wonders, you had yeah, bands like the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac and Bob Welch and all those kinds of. kind of bands and then you had the clam, right? And then you can they would just push them all together.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that they would just Yeah, they would just put these bills together that you know that that stylistically didn't seem to make sense, but it was great because you were really exposed to all kinds of different music, not just that one narrow room of music.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: You know, heavy metal. So you go, you know, um I mean I I mean I guess Humble Pie and Black Sabbath and Alice Cooper sort of fit together because they were all pretty loud. But again, you know, I mean Alice was pretty just hard rock whereas Humble Pie was basically a blues band. Yeah exactly back then. Yep. So like you know the Eagles and yes I mean are there two bands you know stylistically you know farther apart than the Eagles but nobody thought it nobody said oh well what's this band doing on the bill with yes and again it was their first tour the the the first single Wishy Woman had just broken.

SPEAKER_01: And it was just well cool you know that's a that's a they're a cool band I guess and there's no you know no problem with them you know opening for yes why should there be um but you're right they do group everybody together they did that in the 80s too especially the glam yeah um hairbands they put a up and coming hair band on tour with right you know right but they wouldn't have put they would they wouldn't have put a country rock band they wouldn't have put a country rock band on you know it'd be Doc and Molly crew and uh or rat you know opening up Farazzi you know yeah sure something like that yeah but so no the 70s the 70s was the golden age of of you know mixed bills and that's how you got it but that was also how you got exposed to different types of music that you aren't necessarily you know familiar with.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah you'd see a band and you're like oh I never heard of this band and then all of a sudden right but even like the the the whole genre of music though I mean you know yeah like like maybe you know if there's a hair band it's a new hair band but it's still a hair band. Yeah whereas I said you know like my Maha Vishnu Orchestra you know the most complex you know jazz season and T Rex you know I mean really we're we're again the kinks and the Kingston King Crimson. It's crazy. Yeah that's it I think I think the other act I'm I'm I'm I know in my mind and I should have gotten brought out I said I kept a list for uh the first like 69 through 76 I actually wrote down every show and I didn't bring it into my little studio here.

SPEAKER_00: But there was another but um there's also another bill with with um John at Wilson's Ox was on right around that and Frampton his first you know his or one of his earliest I don't know if it was his absolute first but it was one of his solo albums had just come out. So that was yeah those that's what made the spectrum another or another thing that made the spectrum such a wonderful place because of the the full the booking philosophy at the time was just so eclectic. It was just so interesting that you know how it the bands that didn't seem to have much in common stylistically but it was great because that was you know you heard different things you didn't hear them were the same three bands all pretty much doing the same kind of music.

SPEAKER_00: I thought that was great.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah and the other thing is you just mentioned like three bands in one night. That's incredible. Right oh yeah especially if all three of them you know are are great but you know they don't do that nowadays you know they don't do uh humble pie you mentioned your first concert was Humboldt uh Mountain and then Sabbath I had that wrong for some reason in a prior podcast I had Sabbath as the headline I always assumed they were the headliner because not the first time not not not in April they came back in July of 71 like I said when Alice Cooper Mountain was off the bill Alice Cooper was on and the the the bill the billing was Black Sabbath headlines Humble Pie was middle billed and Alice Cooper opened and that was a that was also a life changing of event for me seeing Alice Cooper for the first time.

SPEAKER_00: Oh my God he was middle no he was I think he was the opening act oh my god what a way how'd you like to follow that yeah yeah yeah um and you know it it it really was again I I mean I I use the phrase life changing of course very dramatic and hyperbolic but but it was true because in terms of my my music sensibilities because you gotta understand that that if if you don't remember it that the rock music of the 60s and of the Woodstock generation it wasn't just entertainment it was you know it was the flag that the baby boomers flew there was a representation of their values and the whole counterculture thing.

SPEAKER_00: And and one of the things that rock music in the 60s was about was a repudiation or whatever the word is of the music of our parents and to some smaller degree our grandparents and and not just music but show business. And the show business of our parents generation was all about artifice and schlock and you know schmaltz and manipulating emotions like that. And it was all again very artificial. I mean it was great I mean there's nothing wrong with you know Bob Hope and Frank Sinatra but but it was a whole different mindset.

SPEAKER_00: So the music of the 60s was about it was all about being real you know keeping it real and really articulating you know where our generation was at that time. But by and large rock you know any if you were in a rock band when you were on stage you were wearing basically blue jeans you know jeans and t-shirts and and fringed vests like that. And all of a sudden it's 19 it's July of 71 and I I had heard of Alice Cooper uh and maybe I'm 18 had been released probably but I had no idea really what it was all about.

SPEAKER_00: And maybe even I thought Alice Cooper was a woman. And so all of a sudden after you know after several years of seeing all these you know bands looking like hippies all of a sudden this guy comes out and he's wearing you know a one piece like you know leotard with with rhinestones on it and then he you know he he he uh sits in an electric chair and gets electrocuted and he and then he puts on his they lock him in a strait jacket.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And and it it was like and it was basically taking the show business of you know our parents generation and applying it to rock rock and roll. And to me it worked and and and it it it just changed everything about how I saw personally how I saw and then of course Bowie came the next year and that made you know really cemented for me. But but seeing Ali Ziggy absolutely yeah because I was at the one I was at the December 2nd 72 show at the tower and then two shows in February 73. I would fire up a way back machine to see that yeah I and well you know I've seen I don't know how many hundreds and thousands of concerts at this point and that remains to this moment my favorite concerts of all time um it was just beyond amazing I mean the song the presentation and especially especially the especially the 72 show which was was the Ziggy tour 73 was was Ziggy Anna Lad insane but the pay the way the 72 tour was structured was just absolutely brilliant how they he started out just like gangbusters hang on to yourself and and the visuals of it and all um basically the the house went dark and over the over the PA you heard in very high volume Beethoven's Ode to Joy by Van Walter now Wendy Carlos from the uh Clockwork Orange soundtrack and and and and the the band still is I mean the stage is dark and and empty and this music is coming as the synth music is coming over and all of a sudden this this the song kind of hits about two-thirds of the way or three quarters of the way in actually maybe even farther than that but towards at the it kind of hits a crescendo and and at that moment strobe lights start going crazy on the stage and this and Bowie and the spiders just come out on stage and they just they just stand there.

SPEAKER_00: They don't say anything don't do anything as the music is ending and the second the the recorded music ends the strobe lights cut out the stage lights go on and they they they hit into uh hang on to yourself from the second side of Ziggy and you know and and those guys again we're talking about an era where most bands were basically hippies of t-shirts and jeans right and these guys you know they they looked like spiders from ours I mean they they looked otherworldly even more so than Alice and his band.

SPEAKER_01: Now I wanted to ask you about Spectrum concerts as as a fan, right? And you're also a critic at this time. So did you ever have to kind of reconcile the feelings of seeing like a favorite band uh as a critic like seeing uh maybe an off show like oh this is gonna hurt this remote absolutely I like is David Bowie a good example because I'm sure Bowie and I'm petty of all things okay and and one was Bowie that I hated I hated that show and again Bowie is one of my gods right uh the other was Petty and and the third was Clapton Petty I I slammed too but I did say I I started I know I started by saying you know we we talked about before I don't know if it was on the air but um that next you know with the possible exception of the E Street band no American band to my mind has ever been better live than Petty and the Heartbreakers.

SPEAKER_00: And I said you know what it was probably just an off night you know they banned on tour no one bats a thousand but it was it was they seemed like they had phoned it in that night. Now but what really struck me because I have no memory of this I never liked Eric at least I thought I Eric Clapton in concert to me I in my memory was kind of boring. He always seemed just to phone it in he didn't work up a sweat. I never saw him work up a sweat. It was to me always very too easy to him yeah and it was very mechanical like he was going through the I I never saw any real passion.

SPEAKER_00: And then I see this review I wrote from like 1990 where I raved about the show and how amazing Clapton was but but you know as as a fan I unfortunately you you can't if you're reviewing you got to be honest and I I I couldn't say if I if I because because I'm I'm I'm not only am I not being fair to myself but I'm not being fair to my readers. I assume people are reading because they they they're expecting an honest appraisal felt the same way.

SPEAKER_01: Like maybe some of them did Chuck is telling us you know this is and that's exactly true.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah and and um so I unfortunately on Bowie and Petty are are two you know of the most glaring examples and the ones because but it happened a lot where I you know I went and saw a band that I love love love love and they just I just didn't think it was very good or very interesting and I had to write it. You know I I but not so much I mean back in the 70s like certain I absolutely didn't and probably it wasn't until the 90s or even two early 2000s where if I didn't like something but I I you know and no matter how much I slammed the show I would always make it a point to say but you know what the paying customers had they loved it.

SPEAKER_01: Right.

SPEAKER_00: That's so I I always yeah I I always tried to be fair to say I didn't like it but there were you know five thousand or ten thousand or twenty thousand people who clearly loved it.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And I think that that was important to note that that you know it's just my opinion I'm it's not a fact but this is how I saw it. But obviously clearly there were a lot of people there who didn't see it the way I saw it. I I just think that's only right to do.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah and that's fair and that's that's what uh that's how you stay in business and that's how you keep your you know keep your credibility right yeah so you can't be a true yeah I mean it's probably took me 20 years to figure that out but but I it I finally realized that I need to do that.

SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's not fair you know to slam now there were of course exceptions to everything vanilla ice at the tower that I you know I think I think we left and my my buddy and I left after like the third song or something because it was just so brutally bad and I was reviewed you know I said hey this is this is awesome you had to review that show yeah sure because that's you know at that time vanilla ice was you know one of the biggest names in in music so I yeah it was my job you know that that's that's the thing that people have to understand I'm sure I I probably speak for anyone who's ever done you know been a um not just a music critic but any kind of of arts critic you know theater movies um you know television whatever which I've done them all over the years over the decades that you know so I would meet people what do you do oh I review concerts oh that's so cool you get to see all the shows and what people don't understand is when you get to see literally everything most of it is not really that good right well you're not as it as a fan anymore like you're not right but you are a fan button I was a fan right but and you're right exactly and and most and yeah and and I and and when you see everything you see a lot of stuff that just isn't really that good or interesting sometimes it's it downright sucks like Vanilla Ice for instance um but there are also plenty of rock bands too it wasn't just because of you know vanilla ice one of my favorite reviews that that I ever wrote nine you know mid mid to late nineties maybe and I was in the it was still the spectrum so actually actually it was probably like the early nineties anyway I I thought the show was was just miserable just noisy and self-indulgent and it was Hagar so that's two strikes already because I just never he never did it for me.

SPEAKER_00: And I have my my my you know my my my reporter's notebook kind of the long skinny you know notebook and I had left because I had to go back to the paper to write. It was still I guess we were still an afternoon paper. So this would have been 80s early 90s. And so I I had to write for the next day's edition. So I went and as I walked out of the press box I was standing right outside in the main concourse and and I was making a few last notes before going back to the paper to write and some guy you know who's probably drunk or stoned or both saw no realized I was like a reporter and he came up to me man you writing about the show I said yeah he goes make sure you write something good I said you got it dude and I left and my lead the next day in the next day's paper I set up the scene I said as I was leaving the press box last night you know a Van Halen fan noticed I was you know writing in my notebook asked me if I was writing about the show and then admonished me to quote write something good I said here goes nobody died no nobody died at at last night's Van Halen concert that was it that was that I got nothing else that was the good thing that's all I love that so I've got to understand as a critic and I don't know if I speak for all critics but for myself it is much so much more fun to write a bad review than a good review.

SPEAKER_00: It really is it's just so much fun when you really if you're really like you know slaughtering somebody it's just so much fun.

SPEAKER_01: It's like getting on the flesh getting it out but you're being honest it's not your fault they're they were bad you're just being honest.

SPEAKER_00: Exactly and it got a bad game obviously there was there were 2000 people don't make me write this okay right but there were 2000 people who clearly disagree with me but again I this is my job what did I think I would this is not a fact this is one person's opinion. Well let's talk about your favorite shows I'm sure you have a lot of uh memorable and favorite shows in terms of favorite shows you want to talk just spectrum or you want to talk in overall overall I mean we're okay well those Patty Paul Simon Dylan um and to see them you know in in that size venue but Joe Jackson September of 79 second album I'm the mad was just absolutely I mean everything that like rock music should should be uh it's just a great band great songs um let's see yeah um yeah of course now I'm drawing blanks uh oh wings wings over America tour May of 76 at the spectrum yeah that was that remains in my top 10 as does I'm not a Pink Floyd fan by and large I mean I was much more in high school absolutely and the but the dark side show was uh unbelievably amazing I mean it was at the spectrum theater so it was you know like 1000 seats not 20 right I was sitting on the floor kind of in the middle of the floor mid not quite midway back and they had the quadriphonic sound and yeah it was I I I but I i I it was a pretty psychedelic experience between the music and and the the visuals it was it was around they did the PA it was I mean I I I felt like I was in outer space absolutely it was it it was the that was the point yeah that was the point it it was it was just an amazing show uh I you know probably the the first Alice Cooper because it was just so mind blowing because I'd never seen anything like it 72 was like the most amazing year for me for Spectrum Concerts uh between like April and December I mean I saw let's see it was uh Too Thick as a brick tour shows one in in May and one in uh October which were uh absolutely the um amazing shows first time I was so toll voice yeah I saw I've I've seen toll toll my buddy and I our toll is our grateful dad we've seen toll slash Ian Anderson solo uh somewhere between 60 and 70 times throughout throughout the the the um middle atlantic states uh new york boston and you know washington yeah toll was my band I love toll um I'll tell you who else the stones in 72 July of 72 wow uh the first time I saw this stones uh it was the exile main street tour it was the first time you know they did that tour with Stevie Wonder opening and it wasn't until the the two last stops on the tour were Philly with a spectrum and Madison Square Gardens and the I believe the Matinee show was that I was at the first time the encore was Stevie came out and they did satisfaction and uptight out of sight.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah so you were at the matinee show that's amazing yeah yeah and also um Rod Yeah Rod Rod and Faces also in July of 72 I believe was amazing. I guess um I gotta put the first time I saw ELP love that band um yeah that was that was like March of 72 oh uh no that was seven when trying to think I can't remember now funny I can't remember the first time I saw ELP um who else but yeah I mean they you know just some oh I did see in June of 72 I saw Zeppelin and didn't like him. Wow okay I I yeah it was the only time I saw Zeppelin I had uh I was supposed to go in 75 but I was writing for the Temple News but my editor decided he wanted to go so I never got to I didn't get to see the 75 show.

SPEAKER_00: But I gotta tell you the 72 sort of like Mountain I just seem to recall it being very self-indulgent you know a lot of a lot of pointless soloing. I mean I d what basically what I what I remember about that show it was I I one a great moment rock and roll concert moment was them doing um going to California. I remember they dedicating it to Joni Mitchell and then I do remember Paige playing with the bow. I guess it was on a whole lot of love. Right uh the main point I never I never saw Bruce at the main point uh didn't really I saw Bruce at the tower in in 74 but it wasn't until he played the spectrum for the first time in 76 of course famously known as his first arena headlining show that's when I kind of got him it's funny because we're just talking about one little moment in a whole three decade full of you know your uh you know I'm I'm jogging my memory too on on all this well because because because the concerts in the seven that was my life and especially in the 70s.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah how did you find out about shows strictly through the newspapers well the newspaper the newspapers and and MMR right I mean MMR we listened to MMR every every second we could we had MMR on yeah and then they shocky and Michael Tearson were our were our gods you know they were our our at least our our popes you know our religious leaders yeah no because they were yeah they were so that's why and that's how I got you know another really memorable show February of seventy four Billy Joel at the main point just him in the piano if no one knows the main point it was out in Brynmar and Lancaster Avenue and it was about a hundred and fifty or two hundred seat coffee house didn't even serve booze.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah wow I I think I've heard of that show that's talked about a lot. Yeah was that recorded

SPEAKER_00: I don't think no. Springsteen, Springsteen was recorded, and Billy Joel was recorded at Sigma Sound for MMR. Right. That's how Billy Joel became Billy Joel with that with that MMR show, right? Yeah. You know that story?

SPEAKER_01: Uh no. He was Simoncast on it.

SPEAKER_00: No, okay. So back in the early 70s, 72, 73, whatever, MMR did a series of concerts recorded at Sigma Sound. And uh in this in this studio, which is very small, so they only allowed maybe you know 30 or 40, or maybe it was 50. They it wasn't open to the public. You couldn't buy tickets. You know, you want tickets on the station. You called up, and luckily, you know, if you were lucky, you want tickets. So one of the people that they did was this guy, Billy Joel, who was known to to the staff at uh whatchamacallit, and he only had that one album called Spring Harbor on a little label.

SPEAKER_01: Okay.

SPEAKER_00: At this time. And he goes and he records the this this concert and a Sigma, and one of the songs was Captain Jack. And this was a time when the disc jockeys chose their own music, they could play whatever they felt like playing.

SPEAKER_02: Okay.

SPEAKER_00: And I I I don't know if it was Michael Tearson or Jonathan Takeoff, uh, who I think they both claimed to have played at first, but I think it might have been Taikov. One night, shortly after the concert was recorded, Takeov played Captain Jack, and the phones lit up like crazy. Wow, that's great. Like just dozens and dozens of calls. Who is that played again? And from there, for the next few weeks or whatever, Captain Jack was like in regular rotation amongst, you know, the Stones and Yes and the Beatles and you know, all the other big The Grateful Dead, whoever were the big bands of, you know, Pink Floyd of that era.

SPEAKER_00: And there was a Columbia Records had uh their local Philly region promotion guy, the guy who would take the new records each week to the radio stations and to get them played on the radio because that's how you you know you made acts and sold and made money by getting the songs on the radio. And Herbie, who left us a number of years ago, probably about 15 years ago now, was a very, very, very sweet man. I I really liked him a lot. Herbie told his bosses in New York, he said, you know, you might want to check out this, you know, because MMR by then 72, 73, was one of the you know, one of the three or four most important stations in the country for, you know, unfm, you know, underground music, they called it.

SPEAKER_00: That whole, you know, they began the dead and Pink Floyd. MMR was one of the real trendsetters. They said, you know, he says, MMR is all over this guy, Billy Joel. And and Billy had already left to go to LA to work in the bar. Oh, wow. And had no idea. Meanwhile, back here, CBS, you know, he listens to the show and sees w how popular he is in Philadelphia, and they they found him and they signed him. Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: So that's that was that was the way things worked, you know, before, you know, before TikTok.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Way before. Yeah. That's right. It was yeah, though DJs were most important. I mean, uh, uh Spring Scene. Yep. And I used to know one of the Pearson all the time, Into the Night was one of the things.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. Love that show. Yeah, I I got obviously, you know, because and I would write about because I also starting with the actually starting with the paper out in the Today Spirit, I would write about radio as well.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: Uh and I so I got to know Shockey and Tears and I became friends with him. And on one of my favorite Shockey stories the night uh it was around one o'clock in the morning, and he was having a bite to eat with three of his pet musical pals, Springsteen, Joel and Manilo. Oh my god. And Manilo said that night at their the when they you know at the table to to Springsteen and and Billy Joel, I am going to be the of the three of us, I am going to be the biggest star.

SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine sitting with those three guys when no nobody knew? Um, so yeah, so the those were just great times, you know. And uh I'm I mean, yeah, do I want I I wish they were still around in some ways, I wish, yeah, but of course you can't have that, and I don't regret you know moving on in time. But it it you know, you said before about having a time machine, yeah. That was it was just such a a great time to be a music fan. Absolutely. There was there was not there'll never be anything like it.

SPEAKER_00: And certainly to a large degree, it made me who I am today and personally and professionally.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wouldn't be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, because I thought why I you know I I wanted to become a writer so I could go to all the shows, you know, become a writer, a music writer. And it was all because I needed to figure out the one thing I knew when I was a kid was I really didn't want to have to work for a living.

SPEAKER_02: Right.

SPEAKER_00: I saw too many people who had to work for living who weren't very happy in their lives because they had to work for livings. And I I didn't know, you know, I I just hope somehow I can figure out how to do something that's really fun that it's not working whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01: Man, you were in the sweet spot in the 70s with the concerts and the press boxes and uh writing. Yeah, one last thing. I did want to ask you what kind of archives or mementos do you have besides photos that you mentioned that you have.

SPEAKER_00: Oh, I mean, I I have I don't have a lot of backstage passes because uh when I got them back in the 70s especially, I would slap them on my my base case and they fell off. You know, they got they yeah. So unfortunately I don't have a real I have I have a bunch of you know I have uh my all my everything from Live Aid, the the initial press uh press pack, you know, press kit um uh that has mentions all these names that never played.

SPEAKER_01: Right. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Uh for various reasons.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Like press kit. I mean, I have a million press kits in my garage, right? Like albums, you know, and pictures, you know, you know, like the press photos and all. Um I I yeah, I said I'd love it. I I have uh I also have my my credentials and all from uh Amnesty Now in 88 with Springsteen and you too at the JFK Stadium. I have I have the parking pass from The Grateful Dead at JFK in 87, which I believe was the last concert at JFK.

SPEAKER_01: Uh I believe you're right. That's that's right.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Um and I have a lot of articles that I saved, I mean, tons of much to my wife's chagrin. Um, I do I yeah, I mean I I have I have a good deal, but but probably not nearly as much as I I probably sh you know should have kept.

SPEAKER_01: You got the you got the memories, man. You know, and that's that's what that's what it's about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: As I always say, I ate the smartest guy in the world or the richest or the best looking, but you know what? I I I I don't have any complaints.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. I always say that's the only good thing about being as old as I am, I got to see constants that younger people can't even imagine. Zeppelin and and the hoodooing Tommy and Bowie and the Spiders and Gabriel with Genesis, yeah. And Billy Joel just at the piano, sitting, you know, 20 feet, 15 feet from him or whatever, 10 feet, just him and his piano. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: That's a a book?

SPEAKER_00: I uh sure, but but I I I also I always figure I should probably read one first. You know what? And my my other so that's one of my stock because I get asked that obviously a lot. Yeah, that's my first stock answer. My second stock answer is I actually have written probably five or six books, not just all at once, because I don't know what the number is, but I've you know, again, 50 plus years, right? And and there was a period at the courier from 85 through 91 that I average 10 articles a week. So I figure, yeah, so I figure that I've published somewhere between 10 and 15,000 articles.

SPEAKER_01: It's out there.

SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so it's like again, like so I've written it's probably five or six or ten books worth of book, you know, or of stuff.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh yeah, and listen, it's 2025, and that's why we that's why I do a podcast. Because we put everything down on recording. And it's it's there forever, right? Absolutely. And then so that's why we're doing this today.

SPEAKER_00: So anyway, well, thank you for letting me uh blabber on for so long.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I want to thank you very much for uh an informative conversation. Yeah, I did uh hope you found it enjoyable. I know I did. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Thanks to Chuck Darrell for taking the time and sharing his life experience and knowledge. We learned a lot about the work of a music critic and journalist from behind the scenes all the way up to print. I will put up a link to uh Chuck's current work and his band Pure Petty. So you can go on there, click on there, and uh learn more about uh what Chuck is up to and uh enjoy his uh current uh work as far as a journalist.

SPEAKER_01: Also, I'll include my Spectrum concert group uh on Facebook, which is going on 15 years strong with archives, photos, and great content dedicated to all the concerts at the legendary Philadelphia Spectrum. So please join. And please subscribe and feel free to leave a comment and stay tuned for more great conversations in the concert room inside the Philly Concert Experience.

The Program