The Concert Room welcomes Author Russ DiBella - Tales from behind the backstage curtain and inside the world of concerts!

SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody, thanks for joining me today. I have a great show in store for us. I would like to welcome my special guest who will take us backstage and dive deep into the process of putting on a concert and a show with the emphasis on the backstage cruise and text and personnel. I'd like to welcome author Russ Dabella. Russ is an accomplished musician and the author of the book, From the Inside, a Backdrop to the Music of My Life. Russ's book offers an insider's view of the music scene from the perspective of an outsider looking in, but one who frequently finds himself behind the scenes, in other words, backstage.

SPEAKER_01: From observing load-ins and sound checks to mingling with drum texts, guitar text and band crews, and of course the artists and bands, Russ gives the readers an intimate look of what goes on beyond what a typical concert goer sees. Ultimately, the book is a reflection on a life lived through music, how it influenced his identity, relationships, creativity, and understanding of the world. It is clearly written with an appreciation both for music and those artists who've inspired. So let's get started.

SPEAKER_01: Did want to welcome you to the concert room. Really wanted to start with childhood or your teen years. You're from South Jersey, right? From what I learned. Okay, so the spectrum and those are venues around the the Philly area were your home venues, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And then as far as drums, what age did you start playing the drums or how did you get into the drums? I'd say that kind of ties into to the book we're going to talk about.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as I write in the book, too, I come from a um somewhat musical family. Uh my dad was a pianist and accordionist, my mom was from the choir, uh, my sisters dabbled in it to varying degrees. My brother did not. But for the most part, you know, there was music always on in the home. Again, as I wrote, and I'll try not to say that too often, but as I wrote in the book, that was kind of a nice compliment in our home growing up. The music was always on, so I was interested into stuff from uh you know the earlier generation because of my parents' interests.

SPEAKER_00: And but interestingly enough, uh what happened for me is I uh sort of shifted my my friend group at one point. And long story short, the guys that I started hanging out with were uh you know into the band Kiss at the time.

SPEAKER_03: Right, good.

SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, and when we came when it came time for Halloween one year, this is what I attribute to my interest in the drums, or at least partially. Uh those those the three roles had already been taken with the exception of the drummer Peter Chris. So I was sort of by default the drummer.

SPEAKER_03: There you go.

SPEAKER_00: So yeah, as as as luck would have it, and uh and I am actually quite grateful for that because I do love playing the drums. But so I think that was one of the one of the things. Um I know at some point, either prior to that or subsequent to that, I had taken some interest and I started to send away to drum catalog companies just to drool over those pictures, certainly drum sets that I had no way or sh of paying for. Right. But I did want them. And one of those ads was a was for a free set of drumsticks, Ludwig drumsticks, uh oddly enough.

SPEAKER_00: And uh I sent away and I got the sticks, and you know, from then on out I just started you know playing on my bed, so to speak, and started drumming and then found a few hundred dollar no-name kid in the classified ads, and off I went.

SPEAKER_01: That's awesome. Well, let's talk about the book. From the inside, a backdrop to the music of my life. Love the title from the inside, because I use that a lot on my podcast. Always say, you know, inside the Philly experience, inside the Philly concert experience. Such a great title. So for me, it's uh it's kind of written as a what a part memoir and and uh part you know backstage pass.

SPEAKER_00: Well, that's yeah, that's a good that's a good synopsis, in fact. I I always say it's a hobby specific memoir. So um memoir being obviously the stories that you've uh the the the experiences uh one has experienced you know has you know had over their years or whatever the case may be. And in this case, I say hobby specific because it's such a niche thing.

unknown: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And I and I write it in just simply a chronological order. I don't jump all over the place. There's not a protagonist, if you will. It's not a story, it's not prose, it's not, it's just really a series of events. So when I talk to people or they ask about it, I say, you can read it in any order you want. Yeah, there's some chronological history there about me simply because I'm the writer, I'm the author, but for the most part, the important stuff is is the deeper stuff, all those shows. So if you're not into country, you know, you skip over those chapters and you can get to one that you want to read or jump forward or backward based on the the uh table of contents.

SPEAKER_00: But it it does have there is sort of some some chronic chronology to how I went from maybe my first backstage one to the last one where I sort of became more adept, let's say, at getting getting where I wanted to get and doing what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's sort of like the outsider looking in. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: Um from a different perspective, I always say it's from the other side of the stage. So it's the things, and I forget what I wrote about in the book, but it it is it is uh a view that not many people get. It's it's something that not many see, but that a lot of people have you know an interest or a curiosity about. Hey, what goes back there? Yeah, in fact, that's that's what I that's what I wrote, and I didn't I did make note of this just to say because I I wanted to mention it, and if I can quote from the book, it says it's an area that I discovered holds far more perceived mystique than is justly warranted.

SPEAKER_00: It's not to diminish in any way my interest in witnessing all the production going on, the musicians dealing with the less exciting side of their jobs and the other miscellaneous activities that go into preparing for a show. But it's just not quite as alluring as is likely thought by most. And the reason I wrote that and said that is because it's not all parties and girls and all this craziness. There's a lot of work going on in the background to make these shows happen. And that's the stuff I witnessed and was kind of like amazed by, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely. And it's true, it's a show and behind the scenes. We don't get to see that as fans. This is always this is interesting because it's a intimate look at what you know goes on behind the uh behind the scenes and typical concert goer does not see, you know, there's a lot, a lot of a lot of lot of a lot to to put that show on.

SPEAKER_00: From when really what people experience is from the lights down to lights up. Beyond that, I mean it's it's three times, four times, five times as much work time-wise, at least, that goes into it. Because when I spent some of those later years, you know, getting vaccinated quite frequently, you know, those trucks are pulling in first thing in the morning.

SPEAKER_03: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And that whole the mechanics of all of that are going on all day until you know we go to these shows at seven o'clock, eight o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then they have to strike down and you know, when everybody leaves.

SPEAKER_00: Just like Jackson Brown sings in the loadout, you know, tear it down and break it down, tear it down, whatever he thinks, and set it all up in the next town. And that's really what happens day in and day out. And if they're lucky they get a day off in between, maybe two, but for the most part, this is like, you know, repeat each day.

SPEAKER_01: Well, let me ask you, do was there a moment that clearly led you toward writing from the inside? In other words, what what made you finally sit down and say, Okay, it's it's time to write this, you know?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. It was. I mean, uh I mean I had always been a writer. I mean, words were my one of my first uh loves, if you will, from from a young age. And so I was always documenting things and writing poetry or you know, whatever I was writing, certainly lyrics when I started playing drones at 13, immediately started being the writer because I was the word guy. So that was kind of a fun thing that I've written and recorded several songs. But at one point during the shenanigans, I call it all kinds of things, but at one point during that the antics of this yeah, this adolescent uh copy of mine.

SPEAKER_00: One uh friend of mine, Kevin, said, you know, you should really document this stuff. And it was sort of a comment in passing, but one that I took to heart immediately. I went, you know what? You're right. I'm the word guy. So boom. That was kind of a launching point, if you will, where I started and started after every effort, suddenly I went back in time in my memory and said, Oh, when did I first do this? And started documenting all that for my own sake. But as I did these later on, I would go home after that show or after just the backstage event if I left early, yeah, and just type all this stuff up in an email, and I'd either send it to him or I'd send it to myself, and then later I would just recap these emails because they were fresh in my mind.

SPEAKER_00: When I was young and and came home from school, my mom's rule was always, you know, uh, well, her advice, I should say, was, you know, hey, do all your homework right now while school, and everything you learned is fresh in your mind. So I kind of applied that philosophy or that that way of thinking to these events. So I came home from these backstage adventures, and man, it was all fresh in my mind and so exciting. And so I was just typing away and sending myself just random emails, you know, the old adage of writing is don't get it right, get it down.

SPEAKER_00: So I would get it down and I would sanitize it later, and certainly way, way more than that when the uh manuscript and then the book came out. But yeah, so so that's kind of that was the pivotal moment, if you will. Hey, you should document this stuff, and so I did, and then it just became this thing that I would do after every backstage event, and and at some point I finally had to put a stop to it. Because otherwise I would just keep going concepts and never stop, and I'd write about that at the end of the book.

SPEAKER_01: So it it kind of changed direction, right, as you're writing it, because it's not specifically every chapter, you know, here's a backstage story, here's the concert, here's the you know, there are chapters dedicated to your your music.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, correct. Yeah, I did talk about it, you know, in the beginning. I think there's three parts to the to the to the to the book. Uh one is a is a passion revealed. I think you'd call it belonging there is the second part. That was sort of when I got to the point of just acting like I belonged there, you know. I especially when I was at one venue all the time, which had multiple names over there in Camden. And then, you know, the last part was you know titled Everything After. It's just sort of other things that I did.

SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I did definitely drop my own story in there, you know, how I got into drums and how it all began with that first concert Boston on October 30th, 1978, and different shows that I had seen, and wow, I was really interested in this. And just it was just so much. It was uh going back in local shots Philly is one chapter where I talk about all these very specific um shows in Philadelphia and smaller clubs, you know, the Chocadero, you know, different things like that. So yeah, and I talked about and as the the show as you say it changes as as these uh events evolve, or as I continue with them, I talk about the different ways and how I went from sort of sneaking in and trying to be uh invisible, if you will, to being hiding in plain sight and being the face that these guys all knew and thought I belonged there.

SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I hesitate to say that. I keep I'm always like sort of shrinking away from that, saying, I was sneaking around, I was doing something wrong. But it's uh it does it does evolve over time, and I actually befriended some people at these events and opened and opened up to some of them that hey, I don't belong here, and they were cool with it. They're like, you've been doing this for so long, you're part of the the family here now.

SPEAKER_01: We don't awesome, yeah. And you do, you shine a light on the the text and the crew, yes, you know. It's uh I think it's important to tell their stories because like like you said, they work hard, you know, they they put on a show. Uh we only see what the this two-hour concert, and then we go. But so you do it's really interesting this to read about the backstage, the texts, and you know, setting up the stage and something like that. And you weren't in the way, so you weren't hassling them. Absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00: So you were observing, and yeah, the fact that if I yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt, but yeah, you're absolutely right. The point, and if I may, again, it says this in my book, as a claimer of sorts, even though I used mild deception on occasion to carry out many of these activities, it was always harmless, never disruptive, and all in good fun. But regardless, this was rock and roll, and a fair amount of lunacy should be accepted if not accepted. And that's true. But to the point you just made, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00: I talked at length and met many techs, drum techs, guitar techs, you know, all these other guys, and I got their stories, and I said, Hey, you know, what do you do in the off season? What do you do when you're not touring? Or, you know, how how how'd you get into this? And and it's about them too.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm sure they appreciate it too, because you know, the stars get they get all the accolades and the interviews and you know. But they're very humble. I I've been around techs and crews and stuff like that, and they're just humble. They do their job. This is you know, but I'm sure they really appreciate it. Uh, you know, actually somebody who took an interest in in what they did what they do.

SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, they always seem very receptive. And yeah, they're very receptive, very cool. You know, they're just these guys on the road. This is their, you know, this is their their world. But a lot of them are very cool, you know. They were very receptive, as I said, when when I'd approached them, they'd be like, oh, hey, cool. I set up drum kits for you know Carter Beaufort with with Dave Matthews band. His his drum his drum uh tech, I believe his name's Harry. I'm Henry Henry Lenewski, I think it's his name.

SPEAKER_00: Anyway, he let me you know just help him do stuff at the kit while we talked. Um that's the same thing with Bonnie Carlos and Chief Trick and his drum tech. And uh gosh, uh my friends now have become friends with the drum tech. His name is uh Kyle. And he was with Ginnard at the time, and I and then I met Jason Aldean's drum tech, his name's Rich uh drummer, Rich Redmond, and I set up his kit with him backstage. So these guys were very receptive. Another guy, uh the drummer for art at the time. These guys were all like, Yeah, sure, just hand me that symbol over there, and then we just sat there and talked on the loading dock as they set their own kits up because some of these guys didn't even have text.

SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it helped help you you knew the language, you were a drummer, and and you know, that helps also. Like you're part of the uh you know the brotherhood. Well, I do want to get to some backstage stuff. Was there like one person that had a like your favorite or to talk to or had an impact on you? Because you've obviously met a lot of people, but was there one person that you think about like, oh, there's a life lesson he told me, or you know?

SPEAKER_00: Good good question. Um, but all of them seem to be equally giving in terms of well telling me what they do and how they got into it, but none that I would say, oh that one, you know, well, certain people I met, I mean, aside from drum text, but some of them have become you know friends, and then then that translates to becoming friends on Facebook, it's an album in touch, and a couple of them I text. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they've impact on you that way, you know, friendship. And if you didn't get back there, then you wouldn't have had that friendship. So that's that's great. Yeah, that's basically what I was getting at. So I I gotta do have to ask you this. Were there any stories that you almost left out you didn't, or did did you actually leave out? Like uh because you mentioned earlier that you know this has I have to stop writing these chapters. Or it could be like two, three book volume.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly. But were there any stories that you did leave out or well it's it's it was more like when can I when am I gonna put a put a put a you know uh an end to this book because otherwise I could just wait for another concert season and I even mentioned that at the back of the book, I think something to that effect. Right. Or do I just you know do I wait for another season and just keep writing more stories and keep doing this? Uh no, nothing I left out that the only ones I left out were ones that maybe didn't have too much to offer in terms of an interesting story.

SPEAKER_00: It was kind of a just a run of the mill if there is such a thing, you know, backstage event. Got and got in and did what I had to do, and then I left. Now, the focus of the book, not the focus, but a big chunk of it is the fact that I'm a drummer. And during all of this, I amassed, you know, a collection of drumsticks that I got from the drummers or the drum text or whatever it used to be. So that was sort of the that was the that was the common thread all throughout of it, all throughout it. And for the most part, it was probably even the goal.

SPEAKER_00: I want to have this collection of drumsticks as a drummer, and you know. So there were some there were some fun moments.

SPEAKER_01: Um autographs and stuff. I mean drumsticks, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: I always said I'd rather have a handshake than an autograph. If the autograph is going to be on something I don't care about, if it's just here, a little slip of paper, I'd rather shake your hand and talk to you one-on-one. These drummers that let's for want of a better word that we idolized but that we were like interested in and all that. And one was an interesting uh um gosh, I wish I could remember his name right now. Tim McGraw's drummer. Um he was one of the nicest guys. He took me into the truck the truck to find the drumstick for me.

SPEAKER_00: Then he walked me out on the stage, out on the stage and said, Go ahead and sit behind my kit, I'll get a picture from out here for him for you. Then as I'm sitting at at the kit, he just goes, You're a drummer, right? I said, Yeah, he goes, Go ahead and play. So as these guys are doing sound checks sort of around me, just miscellaneous stuff, no song. He just goes, Go ahead and play. So I got to sit up on stage, you know, in Camden at the arena there and just start playing his drum. Billy Mason, I think is his name, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_00: And that was at his urging, not mine. So that was cool. Yes, he was a very, very nice guy. If I can jump out of the book for a moment, there was a story, another great drummer and drums drum tech, John Douglas, who worked well at the time was with Alex Van Halen. There we go.

SPEAKER_01: Another hero.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this was in 2015, their last tour. And I went to the venue, did my thing, got in there, was backstage, was uh approached him, he was on the set or on the uh the kit on the riser, and I walked up behind him and I just said, Hey, and I had a copy of the book already with me. And he Alex's drumstick is I have a wish list in the back of this book, and there are maybe 10 or 15 drummers and drumsticks that I wanted to get that I hadn't gotten at the time that this was published.

SPEAKER_00: Excuse me, his was one of them, Alex's was one of them. So I approached John, super nice guy, couldn't have been nicer, but I held out a copy of the book. He said, You wrote this? I said, Yeah. He said, That's really neat. And he looks at it and he steps off the riser and he comes down and he goes, Yeah, let's go. He walks me around to his station there, those cases, and he opens a drawer. It's got all these sticks in it. And Alex had four different types with different messages on them, you know, funny messages, you know.

SPEAKER_00: One said gluten-free, the other said asthma on TV. And there were two others, you know. They were funny. He just goes, Here you go, here's here's four. Here's all four of them that he has. He just gives me the sticks, and I give him the copy of the book, and he said, Thanks so much. And he showed me this other stuff. He he has an interesting story too, because he snuck backstage when he was young. He met Eddie Van Halen because he was an artist, and I'll get into who he is in a second. He was an artist and he drew this really great picture, pencil drawing of Eddie Van Halen.

SPEAKER_00: Long story short, he gave it to a friend years and years later. He got it back from that friend. It now hangs in that workstation. Wow. Well, at some point back then, he snuck backstage to or he got it backstage using this picture, and it's a picture of him standing there with Eddie, him holding this picture that he drew. And that's how he got community. Eddie jumped fast forward. Now he's out teching for Alex, but that picture is in his workstation, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01: That's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_00: And further, further, yeah, if I may, further, I said, Hey, do you mind if I uh and I was back behind that kid and it was just beautiful. And I said, uh Do you mind if I do you mind if I sit at the kid? He goes, No, he goes, if you don't mind, don't do it, Alex. It's funny about anybody sitting at his kit. I said, Okay, that's fine. He goes, but why don't you stand there? I'm gonna go out front and take a picture for you. And then as he's about to do that, he realizes he doesn't have the symbols on the step.

SPEAKER_00: Now, this is a drummer to a drummer, which I think is awesome. Excuse me. He goes, tell you what, why don't you give me like 10 minutes? Let me get all the symbols on, let's do it for the right effect. So then he goes, So he walk in, he walked, I walk away, let him do his symbol thing, I come back, he's got them all on, then he steps out there and he takes this great picture of me standing there with my arms spread wide behind Alex's kit from that 2015 tour, final tour. And my friend Scott out of California sent him that picture.

SPEAKER_00: And he's a huge fan as well, and he loves all this stuff too. And he's really into music, and backstage stories are intriguing to him as well. And he made a poster of that, and he has it in this man cave out there in California. That's a full story, too. Unfortunately, it's not in the book, but it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't see that in there, but I wanted to back up and talk about some of these experiences like we're doing that fill out, you know, the fill in the book, if you will. You mentioned your first concert was 78 Boston at the spectrum. Did you go by yourself? Or did you No, no.

SPEAKER_00: I went with my good friend Dan, who was also my guitarist, you know, from the time we both started. You know, I write in the book. Yeah. I picked up sticks at the same time he picked up a guitar and we just went off and you know became a band all through high school, middle school, high school, that sort of thing.

unknown: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: The rite of passage for us was going to a concert. Like what I meant by by ourselves is like, you know, driving down, no parents, no chaperones or anything like that. Big rite of passage is always coming of age, was going to your first concert, you know, by well, it's funny you say that.

SPEAKER_00: You you you hit on the point that I was just about to make. The funny thing is, we got we got four tickets for Dan, myself, my friend Paul, and our our mutual friend Mike. Mike wasn't allowed to go.

SPEAKER_03: Oh.

SPEAKER_00: So Dan said to his dad, can you drive us over? And his dad said, Sure. So I don't know what we were planning on doing with that fourth ticket, but his dad said, I'll just take that ticket and I'll go. Wow. And he was like the cool, he was kind of the cool dad, too. So he was very uh, you know, we always practice at Dan's house, you know, the band. So his dad was kind of cool in that regard. A very, you know, professional guy and all, but he was cool. He was easy breezy. He was no problem. He went and he came with us.

SPEAKER_00: So our very first concert was with my friend Dan's dad. And he enjoyed it. He thought it was great. But yeah, so that was our that was our first time in this arena, uh and in the arena, seeing a band live moving around, as I said at the time. I I or I wrote about I said, gosh, before that we had only seen them on the back of the album, so to speak, or in magazines, but now we're seeing them living, breathing, moving around on a stage. It was beyond thrilling, as you recall, probably from your first concert.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it is amazing because you know, you you just see them in the music mags and maybe on TV on an interview, guitar world, drummer, you know, world, whatever. And then, you know, you are one of 18,000 people that are going into the spectrum to see this your band. You know, your favorite band. That's what was exciting about it. Like, oh, my yeah, you know, Van Halen is inside the spectrum right now, getting ready backstage or the locker rooms. We're out in the parking lot, we're having a great time.

SPEAKER_01: MMR is blasting Van Allen. That was my first concert. Like two years later, it was Van Halen 80 World Invasion Tour. 1980 invasion, yes, it was. And did you go to that one?

unknown: By the way.

SPEAKER_01: Sure did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Every every every every every Van Allen show at the spectrum with Dave, excepting the first one where they opened for Sabbath, but did not see that one.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in 78, right. But yeah, it was amazing. And you're right. Amazed me is they were sort of like not that much older than me. They were just kind of a generation older.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: So because I saw the Stones in 81 at JFK. And they were they were all they were always old to me. They were already in their 30s, you know, and still the greatest rock band in the world. Awesome. Yeah. Van Helen was kind of closer to our age, and it was just amazing the talent to even look at that. You know, Eddie and and Alex and and and Dave. And do you remember who opened up for them? I think it was a band called Rail.

SPEAKER_00: Rail. I do remember that too. And I was I was always ambivalent. I wasn't sure if that was a great name or not, but I remember very vividly, though, the drummer. This is my memory, breaking sticks left and right. He was just banging that bell when he was on the ride, and and and the stick would break, and he would flip it behind him. And I just remember seeing these sticks flying all over the place.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why I brought it up because you mentioned sticks. I just remember that just watching this drummer. Like every every fourth downbeat, he was just throwing sticks left and right.

SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you remember what I remember. That's good. I'm glad I had some sort of confirmation on that after all these years.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, absolutely. In fact, I did a podcast with my friend Ed in season one, and we did talk about that. We talked about Van Halen's show in 80, and he brought up Rail, and he said, I just remember the drummer throwing sticks out. He would just he would throw it, and then not Mr. B he'd swing his arm around, pick up another stick, and amazing.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my my my thought was always that they were breaking because he was bang on maybe he was just tossing up.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so too. He was probably breaking them and and just or just throwing them out like as as show. I I remember that.

SPEAKER_00: That's prank. You are the only I think you're the only person who A has ever remembered that rail open for them, and B, that wouldn't even think to have a memory of the sticks you know, flying from that. You'd be surprised.

SPEAKER_01: People listening to this when they get this up and publish, they might be like, oh man, I remember that. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, sort of enough of them. Yeah, that's pretty cool. By the way, what was your favorite concert? Or just what was there one particular band that you always looked forward to seeing?

SPEAKER_00: Well, when I got into Rush, it was just always going to be rush after that. Okay. Um if I had to say a favorite show, it would probably be hard. And and I don't know if this is a default or or a cop-out or whatever, but Live Aid was just so phenomenal because of the obviously the the number of artists, the fact that it was such a monumental show. That was really right up there. The fact that we got backstage, I mean, I'm I'm saying that as a side note, but the reality is the whole day and everything about it was pretty great.

SPEAKER_00: So I'd have to say, I mean, I don't know, you know, uh seeing Van Allen was always just unreal. I did I was at that 81 Stones show also with my friend John that's over there at JFK. So so many. It's probably hard to pin down, but uh if I had to say, wow, one big thing yet. I mean the first time I ever got backstage was at the REO Survivor show in uh February on February 12th, 1985. So that was kind of monumental in that regard. I was really into them, loved them, and uh and we got backstage that night too.

SPEAKER_00: So that was at the spectrum, which is kind of cool. But um, and that was with the help of a guard completely.

SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that because a good chunk of the book is is like I said, it's uh backstage pass. So do you remember what year this was?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was February twelfth, nineteen eighty-five.

SPEAKER_01: Okay. Did was it planned?

SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I don't think it was I don't think it was planned. I went with some friends, so it was again my guitarist Dan, and maybe somebody else. I wasn't sure. Well, prior to the show, I noticed Survivor's drummer Mark Drabey. He was on stage side, in full sight of everybody, but nobody knew who he was. You know, for the most part, I would imagine. I certainly did as a drummer. And he was on the side of the stage in full view of everybody, facing the stage. He was on stage right, so that would be stage left in front of the stage itself.

SPEAKER_00: But anyway, I thought I saw him over there looking through sticks, putting some to the right and some to the left. And I thought, hmm, that's interesting. I wonder what he's doing. So I walk over to the and you know how this the oval of the spectrum is set up. So I walked as close as I could get in the seats that were level with the stage at that point. And I just yelled out and said, Hey, Mark, you're the drummer for Survivor, you know, saying dumb things to be getting getting the interest of the guy.

SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, what's up? And I said, Oh, I said, I'm a drummer. How many sticks to get rid of? He's like, Yeah, actually, he was basically tossing sticks he didn't want and putting aside. He said, Sure. So he tells, yeah, you go, he finds one, throws it out to me, and I catch it, and I'm like, Oh, cool, thanks. And I catch it, and then he's like, You're a drummer? I said, Yeah. And he goes, Well, you might as well have a pair, and he throws me another one.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00: So that was it. I was like, Cool, that was great. Thanked him. I don't know if we made small talk, let him do my thing, his thing, and then I just went back to my seat. And no, I was I was obviously interested at that point. I'm like, okay, this is fun, this is cool. I'm connecting to these guys that I like so much, you know. And somehow, way, shape, or form, I discovered that night that backstage wasn't behind the stage per se. It was to get backstage, I should say. It was at the center ice, you know, uh area.

SPEAKER_00: So if you go watch Flyers games or whatever else, you see these guys skate mid-iced and then they go down this tunnel.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.

SPEAKER_00: That's where that's where right, exactly. That's where it was. So I prior to that I had always thought, oh, off to the left or the right of the stage is where you up to get backstage, because that's what you would think. Yeah, yeah. And then I had no idea if it was in the center of the of the arena. Okay, so that's my thing. So I go to that place when I discover that's where I see something, and I see a guard there. I remember his name to this day. It was Larry Jasper. And he was in a spectrum uniform, very nice guy.

SPEAKER_00: He was really cool. And I became like sort of a thorn in his side over the next several years. Let's put it that way. I'll jump ahead. And it became very funny, and he laughed the way you just laughed, and we just became, and every time I showed up, he would just be like roll his eyes and go, God, not again. Well, that all that all started because I hung out that night and I kept visiting him and kept seeing him. And I'm talking about just during this Ario show. And and I kept going down and peeking and then going back to my team.

SPEAKER_00: He eventually I hung out, and as people are leaving, the show's over, and my friends deserve me because I'm nowhere to be found. There's nowhere to get us. He can't text anybody at that time. And my friends, I guess, just all left. They all went home. He he is as as as the arena's emptying, and it's really getting thin. No people around, and all lights are up, of course. People are breaking down the chairs and cleaning up. He's just talking to me, I'm talking to him, and he knows what I want. And of course, I'm like, oh, come on, you know, I start to I don't I didn't bother him enough.

SPEAKER_00: I wasn't that guy. I knew just saying, let me back, let me back, let me back, wasn't gonna do it. Right. So I just befriended the guy, and it was genuine because he was such a nice guy. We left, he was a good he was older than me by 20 years. But we he finally looks around at one point and I see this is happening. He looks to his left and right, so to speak, and then finally he just all he does says nothing. He just opens that gate. The boards, you know. Yeah, he just opens that gate and he just turns, nods his head to the to the right or whatever.

SPEAKER_00: Go, just get out of my way, go. And he lets me back, and I walk straight back, and my heart's pounding, and I walk straight back and I walk to the end of the hallway, the tunnel, as you say, yep, and I see people wheeling about on the right or whatever, and they go into this room, and so I'm just in there with all these other people in this room, all hanging around. Obviously, that's the backstage area. I didn't see any passes or anything, maybe there were a few. I was just trying to keep low-key and be like, I don't belong here.

SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say some guy let me back. If they if I get caught, I'll just get kicked out, and that's the end of it. But on the short of it, I didn't get kicked out. Eventually the band comes in, they all stand behind this table, and everybody just sort of lines up and goes walking right past them and meets every one of them, and they were super gracious and cool.

SPEAKER_01: Ah, what a yeah, what a great memory. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was, and then Larry was cool, and I had found him years later. I just always remembered the name.

unknown: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And I have his number saved in my phone, but I don't know if the same one up to reach out to him.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and then and again, those subs are good shows. Anytime I would go to different shows with eventually I had you know my wife, and we would go to shows, and I'd show up at the gate, especially with her, and he'd roll his eyes and go, oh my god, I can't. And he let us back. I mean, we went to Michael Bolton, I went to Van Halen shows, I went to a Billy Joel show. I mean, he let me back. I went to John Mellencamp, I took my wife backstage with me to John Mellencamp. He let me back every one of those times because he knew I was not gonna get him in trouble and I wasn't gonna get cause any trouble.

SPEAKER_01: Because the first time you didn't ride him out and you didn't get caught, and you were just cool about it, and you know, it didn't come back to him. Well, so you planned on it, right? You said, hey, I'm gonna go down and see if we can get backstage now. Was it more toward the end of the evening? Did this, or I'm gonna get down there earlier to see if I can get back?

SPEAKER_00: At those early spectrum shows, I would always hope to go see Larry. So I was I'll start there.

unknown: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And when I did, you know, he was sort of not a show-in, because sometimes he said no. In fact, there was a handful of times where he said, I can't do anything for you tonight. You know, he was cool, but he's just like, There's too many eyes on me tonight. Yeah, which I guess he was maybe by the band in management or you know, exactly. He would say that. Or sometimes, in fact, the I mentioned the Billy Joel one. He didn't let me back for Billy Joel. He just said, you know, whether he was right or wrong, or didn't want to help that night, or didn't want to always do it.

SPEAKER_00: In other words, he was smart about it. He didn't want to, hey, every time this guy sees me, I'm gonna feel obligated to doing it. No. So I went to the Billy Joel one one time, and he said, he just told me, he goes, No, he is the time he was with Christy. He said, No, he and Christie already left the band, already left the building. They went right from the state, out the back door, and they're gone. So nobody to see back there. So okay, that's cool. I didn't hassle, never. I forget. When he said no, it meant no.

SPEAKER_00: And when he said yes, I took it into him and said, Okay, thanks.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, more shows.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't want to blow a good thing. Subsequent to the spectrum, the bulk of these shows were in Camden. Again, at the multi-mean degree night, you know, over the years. And yes, to answer your question, sometimes it was just it was just that. Literally, it might be a show I wasn't interested in seeing, but I wanted a drumstick, and I would be at home and it would be a weekend, let's say, and I'd be like, I would tell my wife, okay, I gotta run over to Camden real quick. I'll be back in a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: And I would just go over there, do my thing, as I refer to it so often, and hopefully, you know, for the most part, be successful and do what I needed to do and get what I needed to get. And and sometimes I would stay for the show because it would be a free show for me. And sometimes I would just, you know, do what I wanted to do, hang out, watch a sound check, and then maybe meet somebody or otherwise, and then hit the road. You know, I know I wasn't really gonna see that show. But yes, that that started to be an afternoon thing.

SPEAKER_00: In fact, for a lot of years there, I was at sales, an outside sales. So I had that luxury.

SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's luxury, sometimes it's a bad thing. But you're all out on the road, right? So you Yeah, yeah. So I was on the road, I wasn't I wasn't in an office, so to speak. And I could run down there in the afternoon and I would wear a shirt and tie because that's how I was dressed for work.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And I even say that the the the power of the per the perceived power of the shirt and tie uh certainly had its had its moments because people thought I worked there and they didn't really question me. The very first time I got in in Camden, I was dressed as I said, shirt and tie, and a side door was open, not open, but there was a a guard inside. Yeah, there was a door to the outside. Well, the outside door, somebody had just walked in, so or walked out. So I just grabbed the door and kind of walked in.

SPEAKER_00: But at that moment I looked to my left and I saw the guard in behind this glass thing, but he was looking away, the other way. So I just kind of kept walking rough down and got into the inner part of the arena, and then I was there. And that's when I started to sort of make friends with people, so I just talked to them, and I and then my my goal, my objective was always to get them to know my face, to see me, so that when next time they would recognize me, and then I was sort of legit, you know, in their eye.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just put two and two together. Oh yeah, he worked.

SPEAKER_00: Well, that guy's always there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: In fact, he's probably from the management company, or he's from the record company, maybe, you know.

SPEAKER_00: There you go. Well, here's the actual thought. At the time I remember very specifically, it was called the Susquehanna Bank Susquehanna Bank Center.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: At that point.

SPEAKER_03: Yep.

SPEAKER_00: And one of the one of the roadies, one of the local guys I met, his name was Don. He was a great guy. He I'd be friends, he's one of the ones I told. And I have a couple of stories about him where he was helped me out a couple times. Very cool. Anyway, he always said, as he saw me over these years and stuff, and and and and doing what I did, he would always jokingly said, This is your house, Russ. You don't worry about anything. You can go wherever you want. He was so cool. He was so funny. This is your house, man.

SPEAKER_00: You do what you want. I mean, he he helped out. Sometimes there would be a there was a short-term security guy there that was really uh bent on uh you know being a tough guy, so to speak. Right. And anytime he was around, Don would say to me, Yo, lay low, lay low. He's he's he's here. I remember one time specifically I was on stage and I stacked down behind a uh a uh a road case or an amp or something.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And I just lay low till it was clear, and then Don would look over and go, It's clear, he's gone. And I'd be like, Oh my god, he was the coolest. He was so funny.

SPEAKER_01: I used to help him set up stuff out front too while we talk and walk and work and well what so you touched on it with like what you did backstage, but uh you mingled a little bit and you observed, obviously. But did anybody ever say, Oh, by the way, yeah, you don't have a pass. Who actually are you? Like, what are you doing here? Or did you have just that attitude where it's like I belong here? I mean, did anybody ever lost you or chase you or just say hey?

SPEAKER_00: And later at at Camden became a face that was familiar enough that I just had to dance around enough to to to to to be okay. But I I I I wrote about hiding in plain sight and not being you know too intrusive. At some point I I kind of did away with the shirt and tie thing, and I would go over there and just you know, t-shirt and shorts and stoked in because again, it was facial recognition at that point, so it was pretty cool. I talk about all kinds of different things, you know. I'd always bring, I'd have a pocket full of gum, and I'd always offer to the guys at the backstage gate, hey, hey Frank, what's up out of here?

SPEAKER_00: Throw some hands and gum film approaching, and he would just take and say, Thanks, man, what are you doing? I gotta go over here and see something about something. He'd be like, Okay, just push that backstage gate open. I'd walk in, then he shut it again. The one in Canvas right on the right. Wow, that's awesome. Um, that happened a lot. Did I get kicked out? Well, that happened not I can't recall anything specific. Oh, well, that later 2015 show with Van Halen. Yeah, I wrote very specifically. You mentioned something you said, did anybody ever say, Who are you?

SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what Alex Van Halen's security guy said to me.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00: Saw me, yeah, in that 2015 show. Again, not in the book, but I'll share that story with you. He said to me, you know, who are you? And I just fumbled on my name is Russ, and I do such and such. And he goes, Yeah, but who are you? And he wanted nothing to do with it. And this is this muscle bound guy and all that. I don't want to do it. Him either. So long story short, he just goes, I when I gave him an answer then because I was on stage and I didn't have to pass it off. Oh, yeah. And he knew that I and he said, Yeah, that was when I was on stage.

SPEAKER_00: And he said this was pre-show, but still. And he said to me, after the sound check, mind you, I did sit there on stage for a sound check, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: But what he said when he said who are you? And I gave him an answer that did not satisfy him. He just said, Have a nice day. In other words, get the hell out of here. And I took that right away and I walked down, I walked to the backstage. I didn't even hang around the rest of that day. I had already done everything I wanted to do. I had already gotten my drumstick, took the pictures on the at the drumsket with John Douglas, all those other good things. So that was a time when he said, Yeah, who are you?

SPEAKER_00: The another time that happened was during one of those last shows at the spectrum when Springsteen was back in town.

SPEAKER_03: Right.

SPEAKER_00: And uh and I made my way in there twice. That was an interesting set of circumstances how that happened. Made your way in backstage. To the spectrum. Yeah. Yeah, into the spectrum on the afternoon as they were setting up. So and Pierre.

SPEAKER_01: Not to interrupt you, Russ. So how did you get in there in the afternoon? I could see getting in with a ticket and then going down to seeing your guy like during the show or in between sets. But so during the day?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, during the day. Which was pretty much my modus operandi, I guess you could say. It was that's what I always did in in in in in Camden. It went down in the day because who's gonna go? What what kid who's going to a concert, hardly a kid, right? But what guy, what what person that's gonna go to a concert's gonna go there in the middle of the day and try and sneak backstage. That's when the arenas sort of seemed to be more or less secure, I should say. Right. That's what I always found, and that's kind of how I managed it.

SPEAKER_00: But they were they were, you know, closing the spectrum. So they were doing those last shows with Bruce and those last shows with Pearl Jam and all that stuff. And I went down there that day and pulled up and parked, and noticed that there was a side door where they were moving carts in and out, food carts, I think it was.

SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00: So I just walked in that door, I just walked in that side door and walked in and went to the concourse. Walked that concourse, we're also familiar with those of us who went to the spectrum for so many years. And then I just peeked into the arena and found a set of steps and walked all the way down and got all the way down to the floor and walked around and went behind the stage. Well, that's where I met Harry McCarthy, who was Max Weinberg's room.

SPEAKER_01: Right, okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_00: His his his his uh his jump tech. And I just started a conversation, drummer to drummer, just talking about stuff. He's like, Oh yeah, blah blah blah blah blah blah anyway, long story short, he ends up getting these drumsticks and Then one of the times he said, Hey, if you hang here, I've got to change the drum heads on its thing. I'll give you his jolt drum heads from last night's show up at the uh up in New York. Oh, nice I have them still in there in the remote cases in my music room here and dated and I sharpied him, named him, and did all those notes I do.

SPEAKER_00: And I said, Sure, that's cool. So I sat in the uh arena. This is how prepared I was that time. I actually brought lunch with me. I knew I was gonna do this. And I had a little lunch bag with me, and I went out to my car, I grabbed it, I came back in, and I didn't want to lose sight of him, so I sat in those empty stands, those spectrum seats, and I ate lunch while I was watching him change the heads and pull the sticks aside. And as soon as I saw that he was done, I wasn't gonna approach him before that.

SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to bother him.

SPEAKER_03: Right.

SPEAKER_00: But back down there, he's like, Oh, cool, here you go, I got these for you. Here they are. I said, Thanks, man, I appreciate it. And he gave me the sticks too. The only pair of sticks with the zero markings on them whatsoever. So I had to handwrite them myself with the sharpie they were when I got them, and there's no even name brand of the sticks on them. Is uh Max Weinberg's cump sticks really have nothing on them.

SPEAKER_01: Nothing, not even like ProMark or Vic Furrow. No brand, nothing.

SPEAKER_00: Nothing.

SPEAKER_01: Wow.

SPEAKER_00: Surprised me too. So I don't even know who made them. But then the next time he came around, because he came around for a second set of shows when the spectrum was closing. Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Two weeks before Pearl Jam's closing dates, I think. Yeah, around the 13th, I'm gonna say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Yep. So I went to that one as well. So I did the same thing. Excuse me, went in for the afternoon, reintroduced myself to Harry, said, Oh yeah, I know you. I mean, I remember you, how are you doing? That chapter, I think, is even called First Springsteen, the Spectrum Revisited. And I and and you know, the spectrum, you know, here we are, going probably for one last thought. Then I started to drift out to the middle of the arena. Believe it or not, there was the stage was in the center of the arena because they were they they do something and then they move it into place.

SPEAKER_00: It was all really interesting. All the sound, all the things that you see hanging from the ceiling, all the speakers and stuff that you see, they were all on these chains from the I never saw this, I never even knew this. They were all on the floor. And then they they they do stuff to them and then they hoist hoist them all the way up into the rafters. So all this, there was a whole new view. It was really cool, and I write about that in detail in the book. Really cool, a cool view about wow, this is what this place looks like.

SPEAKER_00: The stage is in the middle of the arena at Center Ice, you know, all this stuff, and then they push it all into place and do all this neat stuff. So, anyway, my point being, I got to that section of the stage. I went, Oh no, let me go see what's going on there. And I'm under it, and all these guitars are there, all the bands guitars and everything. And I'm doing all that stuff, and I'm hanging out and I'm talking to the guys, and then and that's where Harry was as well, and he's chatting with me and blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_00: And then a security guard comes up, and he's just like, Who are you? And I'm like, uh-uh. And that was it. I was like, he he wanted nothing to do with me being there. And yeah, yeah, right in detail, but he ushered me out, but he was threatening arrest, he was saying all this stuff, you're in here, you're you're trespassing, I can get you arrested, blah blah blah blah blah. And of course, I'm trying to, you know, mellow him and be like, look, man, I'm just you know, hanging out. I just walked in, I just thought, you know, whatever I had to say to kind of temper it, get him to mellow out.

SPEAKER_00: And he's walking me, you know, walking me with me. And he, as he's walking with me, and he sees a guard here and there every so often at a different point. He's just like, don't let anybody's yelling at them. Nobody in this arena without a pass and without this and without that, and I don't want to see this happening again. He was like, you know, really angry. And he's walking me all the way around to the back. And I'm thinking, oh, what's gonna happen now? Is he gonna introduce me to some cop and say, here, this guy's trespassing, arrested?

SPEAKER_00: But he doesn't, and he just walks me out to that back, as you know, that single shoot, yeah, loading up, loading up.

SPEAKER_02: Yep.

SPEAKER_00: And he just points me to that door and walks me right to that door and says, get out of here. I don't want to see you back again. I was like, sweat. Well, you know, I'm like, okay, cool. I really didn't need uh anyway.

SPEAKER_01: And by the way, this spectrum's closing publicly in two weeks, so you will probably won't see me anymore.

SPEAKER_01: I've been doing this.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's right, that's right. I I I I very specific, yeah, that was uh that was an intervention. In fact, I that's the uh if I may again, and you can edit as needed, but you just said getting kicked out of the spectrum in 09. Okay, I wrote after more than 30 years of spectrum concerts, often engaged in innocuous moments evading guards and ushers, all without issue or incident, I might add, it's somewhat ironic that my final moments there would have me being escorted out by security. And although this rather abrupt conclusion to all things spectrum seemed a bit anticlimactic, no personal mental grand finale, no final walk down memory lane, just a quick and brusque escort out the back door.

SPEAKER_00: In a rock and roll sense, it was actually quite fitting, almost welcome, almost.

SPEAKER_01: That's great. I love that.

SPEAKER_00: So that's what I write at the end uh of the uh of the Bruce 09 show when I got booted out of the spectrum that I spent my whole life going to. Pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is what a what a way to end. I mean, that's just great, you know. I love that. Yeah, the uh Yeah, that's that's awesome. Yeah, I love your your prose and and and stuff. You're a great writer. Uh thank you. Oh, yeah, absolutely. You went to college for that, right? Was that your degree?

SPEAKER_00: I did, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was a communications major, you know, very loose uh major, but a communication with a concentration in journalism. And so, yes, my focus was always writing, and uh so that's yeah, what I did. Yeah, again, I worked with my strong security, is really what I ended up doing. I always knew I kind of could write. Uh I knew my way around the page enough that I okay, I'm gonna probably get a degree in this and that'll be good.

SPEAKER_01: So I'm circling back real fast, uh yeah, as far as security. I mean, obviously the process of getting backstage has changed, you know, from the early days of the German tower. And I guess nowadays it's just heightened because of social media and it everything's more prevalent. And you know, with the have you tried currently to do anything?

SPEAKER_00: Or just the last couple times, no, I didn't answer your question, not really. And and and the last couple times I did it, believe it or not, where I what's far more imposing than the spectrum was is the Wells Fargo side. Yeah, I bet I managed to get backstage twice there, and even I surprised myself. And that was again an afternoon thing. I walked out, I always knew where the you could look over from from this uh upstairs pound course area on the outside sidewalk where the buses, you know, would would park and you could tell there's the tour buses.

SPEAKER_00: Cool, that's me. Yep. And then and then one time I was there and I forget if it was KISS or ACTC. I was driving by. In fact, one time when it was KISS, I had no interest in going. I was driving by and I forget what road I was on at a distance. I don't know if it was, I don't even know. And I saw the marquee and it said KISS tonight, eight o'clock. And I went, hmm, I took a quick off ramp, and I made my way all the way down to the well spot. I was only heading home, so I thought, why not? And I went there and I and I I don't want to mix up my story, so I'm not sure which is which, but at one one time I was I went there, did what I had to do parked, and then I went to this thing overlooking where the buses were.

SPEAKER_00: Then I saw some guy come out a door and smoke a cigarette. And then when he flicked the cigarette and he was done, he just walked back in. No swipe of a pass, nothing to indicate that the door was locked. So I was like, huh, what am I gonna find on the other side of that door? And of course I had to check. So I opened the door and it looked like okay, there's nothing I could do here. It led to some stairs that went downstairs. Went down rather. And I thought, okay, let me do it. So I walked all the way down and I got to the bottom, and it ends up in this sort of vestibule area where to my right there was this glass booth with all these kind of people in there working, like guards and security, and then straight ahead there was a door that led to what amounted to being right backstage.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00: The backstage concourse sort of area. Yeah off to facing the stage, it would be to the right. So it was sort of right there. So I tried the door and it was locked, you know, and it needed a button. And the guy behind the gate, and now this is when I'm in a certain tie again. And the guy behind the gate, I think, in any event, the guy behind the gate, I made sure too, by the way, to bring my little briefcase just in case, just in case something would happen and I would need to use it. So the guy behind the gate goes, can I help behind the glass?

SPEAKER_00: Says, Can I help you? Big security guard. I said, No, I'm just here, uh waiting for one of my trucks to arrive outside, and I just needed to use the bathroom. I was wondering if there was one available right here. And he goes, Oh yeah, it's right inside that door there to the left over there. And then when you come out, you come right out back this way. And I go, Okay, cool. Thanks. He buzzes me through. Door opens, I'm in. I go over to the bathroom, I collect myself. I think, what am I gonna do here?

SPEAKER_00: Where am I gonna go? How am I gonna do what I want to do? And I give it enough time that no, whatever. I'm thinking, okay, I'm cool now. So instead of walking back out into the right and through that door, I walk back out and I realize that that's the arena in there, and I could see it. I walk straight into the arena, and I walk to the opposite side of the stage, I find a seat, and I sit there. And next thing I know, soon enough, Kiss is coming out in their state street clothes, and they're doing a sound check.

SPEAKER_00: Hey, Delilah. I don't know if you know it, it's a newer song at the time, and I don't remember the specifics, but that was one that was one time when I got into Wells Spargo. I thought, wow. Then Gene Simmons is talking to some people that are in the audience, audience, 30 people in the whole arena.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: But he moved around and he was talking to them from the stage and and he was throwing guitar picks at bass picks at them, like trying to hit them playing games, that's silliness. And of course I stand up and walk over and start collecting them.

SPEAKER_01: Start picking up some Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Figure, okay, I can I can kind of do this and not be like, what are you doing here? kind of thing. Um then at some point I walk across the thing, they go off stage, they're done. I walk around to that same section that I came in from on the opposite side of the stage, uh I guess would be Paul Stanley's side, and I walk around and there's Gene. And I said, Hey, Gene, nice to meet you. He's like, I'm sorry, I can't talk right now, but he shakes my hand and he says, Nice to meet you, but I can't talk.

SPEAKER_00: I have to go over there and do something. He does all this in strat, doesn't stop, doesn't do anything. He just meets me, shakes hands, doesn't it? I say, Okay, that's cool. And I kind of follow him around a little bit, and I get backstage and I see the signs, kiss, dressing room, this, that, and the other. And I walk back up. I say, let me just stay away from all that. That looks like trouble. And I walk back out, and I go up on the stage because now it's empty, and not nobody's around. I don't see anybody of any importance, nobody of any sort of importance that would intimidate me otherwise.

SPEAKER_00: And I walk up onto the stage and I take pictures of oh, I walk behind the the big kiss thing is up on the stage, stage level, the big kiss sign, right?

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: So Eric's or yeah, Eric Singer's drum kit is hidden behind it, so it's not raised up yet for the show.

SPEAKER_03: Right.

SPEAKER_00: So it's great, it's stage level. But I walk, I slip behind that. There's a little bit of a space for me to get behind that huge kiss logo. It's like eight or nine or ten feet tall. And I take some pictures of his drum kit with my phone, and I grab two sticks that I see sitting on the drum on the basement. One was cracked and the other one was disused as well. So my crap. Let me just nobody's around. I'm not gonna ask anybody. I'm hardly stealing anything of any real value. Let me just grab these.

SPEAKER_00: So I do that. Tuck them in the back of my short, pull my shirt over, and I get those great pictures, I think. And then I walk out onto the front of the stage at Paul Stanley's mic, and I I know.

SPEAKER_01: And nobody's around, like there's no security on either side. You think that people would be guarding it? Uh you know what I mean? Like I have security at a club watching my drum set. You know what I mean? I always have I always have a body like watch my set. I'm gonna run run over to get a beer or play some pool because that's watch my set. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00: So I walk out to Paul's mic, and you know how they have those picks all stuffed to the stand, you know, there's like 20 of them. Oh, yeah. They stick to the to the stand, they can just pull them off through all right.

SPEAKER_03: Yep.

SPEAKER_00: So I grab a few of those and they say kiss alive 35. So I grab a few of those, put them in my pocket. Just after I do that, they're in my pocket. Yes, to your point, some guy comes out, some roadie guy, and he goes, What are you doing? And I go, What are you doing up here? I forget what he says exactly, but where's the effect of get off the stage? You're not supposed to be on the stage. I can get you in trouble. You know, he's again the same, same story that really it's what he should be doing, right?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And you know, he's just like, you know, get off here, get out. Okay, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool, you know. Thanks, man. I said, I was checking things out, you know, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I don't know what excuse I give. It's in the box. Could correct my story there, but that's what he said to me. And he quickly got me off the stage. I said, Okay, I'm out of here. I got down, I went off. I'd already seen the sound check, already met Gene, already took the picture of the drums, took the drumsticks, got the picks, and I just went down and off the stage, and I think I left, and that was the end of that.

SPEAKER_00: But I did like that.

SPEAKER_01: Providence, like too much. Like, okay, you know, I'm not gonna. But to get that far, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00: I mean, well, to to to to to say one more, I guess. It was either before or after, so forgive me for not remembering the order of things again. It's in the book, but I did the same thing with ACDC now that I knew the route, now that I knew the drill. In fact, it did I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_03: That was like a dry run, right?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was dry running. I didn't do the that backstage door because I saw a side door that people were all going in and out of a regular ground level side door in the arena where people will eventually would later on in the day go through that same door for a show for the show. And I just walked in, people were walking in, and an older gentleman saw me coming up to the door, and he just kindly figured I worked there, and he just held the door open for me and says, Oh, here you go, you can come in here, and I go, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: And I took that I didn't question it, and I walked in. Oh yeah, Dan, that's section two of the book belonging there. So I walked in, I did what I had to do, I went all the way back to where I knew the stage was, and I walked around and I went to the side and I said, Hey, I had learned the name, and I forget it now, but I learned the name of uh Phil Rudd's uh drum tech.

SPEAKER_01: Okay.

SPEAKER_00: I and I asked for him, and he said, Oh, who do you want? Yeah, Dickie or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And he goes, Oh, he's right over there. Hey, Dickie, yeah, somebody here to see you. And I said, he comes walking over, and I can walk it over and I said, Hey buddy, what's up? I go, I don't know you, you don't know me. I go, I just knew that you were his drum tech, and I just thought it was cool. I wanted to see if I could uh talk to you about maybe getting a drumstick or whatever. And he's like, Oh, you know what?

SPEAKER_00: He uses those ahead sticks. I don't know if you're familiar with ahead. Anyway, they're expensive, and these guys don't like to relinquish them and all that other stuff. He goes, Yeah, he doesn't, you know, use them and all that stuff. He goes, but I'll show you the kit. So we walk up to the kid and we start talking. And I said, Oh, this is cool, this is cool, this is cool. I did not bother him again for a stick. He said, No, I said, I understand 100%. I I got you. I wouldn't want to give them away either, and all that.

SPEAKER_00: And after we talked for maybe 10 minutes, I don't even know how long it was. He was really cool to let me see the kid and talk to me. And again, like you said earlier, he seemed appreciative of the fact that somebody was looking for him. I wanted to talk to him about the drums and not say, Hey, where's Phil Rudd? Can you introduce me? You know, it was more me talking to him about drums and and his job, and that was cool. And then as I'm getting done or whatever, he just pulls one out. He goes, All right, here you go, take the stick, just don't tell anybody.

SPEAKER_00: He goes, Take it, and I didn't don't let anybody see it. I said, Cool, man, thank you. I appreciate it. And that's in my collection today. So same thing. I was the Wells Fargo Center, and like you said, kind of learned the lay of the land before with KISS and then went in and did that ACTC thing.

SPEAKER_01: And uh like your uh from what I can tell, like your uh sales background, so you have like a soft sales, soft sales kind of thing, like you know what I mean, which is uh easy, you talk to people and you're generally interested in them, and I think people appreciate that, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I think that background helps too.

SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, because if I was not a drummer and I knew nothing about any of this stuff or didn't have any true interest, as you said, you know, genuine interest, you know, because that really was what it was. It really was, it did stem from that genuine interest. Like, this is so cool. I'm still 16 again now when I'm doing this, I'm 13 again, and this is fun and this is cool, and thanks for indulging me. But not I was always I fell way short of saying, Can you give me? Never, never did. Occasionally, I mean there was, hey, do you have a use stick or you know you want a used one?

SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll take whatever I can get, but if you have a used one, yeah, that's character for me. That's that's something the drummer next to us. That's what I would rather have on my oh let me look, let me look. And I heard that time and time again. Yeah, don't have any. Here you go, or yeah, sure, here you go, cool.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and people want to give you things, information and physical things when you're not only nice to them, but you're not pushy. Like you don't you're not there to get an autograph or a stick, but people will say, Hey, before you leave, you know, let me give you this, you know. And you know, that's um that's just a great you know, way to do it.

SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a good approach because it and you and I have both seen the videos online of you know autograph speakers, and they just keep shoving things in front of somebody's face because they know they're gonna get money for them on you know eBay or whatever. Yeah, and the artist or the or the or the actor or whoever he'll say, no, no, no, you're just freestyling spit away from the company. Yeah, that was never my yeah, it was that's a far cry from uh from from from getting vaccines in live A when I just literally talked my way back with some dudes.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I want to get into live A real fast too. But I did have a question. Did you ever just hang out backstage where like the food was and they were mingling around, or were you always just more on the fringe, like outside the room, if you will?

SPEAKER_00: That's a great question. In fact, I meant to mention that earlier and I got sidetracked and forgot. Yeah, in fact, over in Camden, I would regularly eat and drink from catering. When I was back there, I knew I can picture it right now. I could picture the whole setup and every show and where the crew would eat. And in fact, I ate dinner or lunch and dinner with a couple of crew guys a couple of times. I I would be back there with them. They would have seen me and know me from you know visually, and I was off the line with them and grab my plate and put the chicken on and the food and the master tapes, and I would sit down with Don or whoever else I was talking to at the time and grab some sodas.

SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I was also also kind enough to partake of their drinks and only to to sort of rob Peter to pay Paul. I would bring them out to uh the guys on my way out when I would leave uh some days early and uh give them to the guys who were sweating in the parking lot working the gate. I would bring some cold waters out of some cold sodas, and I knew that was taking up for catering. Like, hey guys, here you go. And they're like, Oh man, thanks so much. So that was kind of fun to do too. But yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_00: I I I would always go back there and and grab you know ice cream out of the ice cream machine, because everything was all free for the taking, right? And sodas and water and whatever. And again, those couple of times when I actually had uh meals and ate with the guys in catering. That was that was both enjoyable and a little nerve-wracking because I thought kind of at any moment somebody might look over and do like the old who are you? And I'd be pulled up from the middle of my meal, so to speak, and and get ushered out the back door, and everybody looking at me going, What the hell happened there?

SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so Russ, now that brings up a good point when you were sitting down eating and and uh conversation with these guys. Did they ever say, Oh, by the way, you know, who are you? Like what is your background, Russ? No, they didn't.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not I mean, maybe in passing, maybe in conversation, we did a little back and forth, but I was I think I was for the most part uh wise enough, let's use that term loosely, to deflect any questions my way and always be asking about them. Because people love to talk about themselves. And that's pretty evident in this conversation, right? But people really love to talk about themselves. And so, and as you mentioned again, I'll say it, you know, when their job is you know sort of the the non-face of the famous musician, yeah, it's cool to be, hey, you're talking to me from me, and you don't want to talk to me about Alex and Allen, or you don't want to talk to me about Neil Pierre, and you don't want to talk, okay.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll talk about me. So I would engage with them and try and keep and then let's face it, they're not interviewers, they're not people that are, you know, gonna sit there and poke at prod and ask me stuff. They're just roadies, for want of a better term. You know, they're they're the text, they're the guys that are doing their job, they're back there having meal time, you know, the sets are already set, the stage is already set, they're waiting until tonight where they have to do more work.

SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of I don't think they concerned themselves with who was sitting next to them.

SPEAKER_01: Right. And you're not a threat. Like I said, you're more of a friend than anything. Like, very much so.

SPEAKER_00: In fact, I was I was intrigued. I was like, so what do you do? You know, what do you do? Oh, I'm guitar tech. Oh, cool. Kidding, what do you have to do how many guitars do you have to manage? You know, that must be tough. You gotta make sure that the right guitar is at the right time and pull it off when when when Nancy uh Wilson pulls off her you know strat, and you gotta put the the right one on her for the next song because I saw that happen from the stage as I watched the show from the stage, which is a very cool thing.

SPEAKER_00: And all these things, like I asked me all these questions that again, back to your point, I was genuinely interested in. So it wasn't just to deflect, as I said earlier, it was definitely to get this information. Never mind me. I'm gonna talk about you. I want to talk about what you guys do, because this is cool to me. This is fun, this is why I'm back here. Yeah, I want to know this stuff.

SPEAKER_01: Nobody ever said, Oh, are you writing a book, Russ? What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02: That's funny.

SPEAKER_01: That would have been funny, right? Yes. Uh you sound like you're doing it.

SPEAKER_00: Why are you pulling out that pen and paper? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: Are you doing all this for memory or are you recording?

SPEAKER_00: It's funny you say that, but yeah. I do have a physical memory, so it was it was again those recaps, those email recaps later in the night.

SPEAKER_01: I would drive home and sometimes I might be detecting I'm sorry. You're writing your book at this point, right?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what you said. Yeah. As as these other shows started happening, and I was sending those texts home, yeah, part of my because it took me more than three years to write the book. So the time that I was doing all these shows, then I was going home and yeah, I was all concurrently writing it. And and sending those texts to myself, and then I'd have to review those texts and I'd look at them and uh those emails, I'm sorry. And I would even send them to my friend Kevin and I'd say, Hey, did I send you that one about such and such?

SPEAKER_00: I can't find it, and you know whatever. It was always uh a recap of the night was always sent that night, and uh and uh yeah, and then that way at least the handle there wasn't like taking all these notes, it was more like this happened and this happened, this happened, this happened. A few key points would always bring up the the rest of the night and the event, especially because it was so fresh.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then you can fill it in and you know, just as long as you have the crib notes.

SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly. Yeah, those backstage moments were pretty fun, those catering moments were pretty fun. The the the other little things I I would see, you know, I would watch Teen Castanovo. Oh, yeah, I wrote about this. He's he's he's he's practicing drum fills literally on the back of somebody, some guy he was with. He was just like standing there, you know. You know, doing some middle click, and I just thought, well, that's interesting to see. Because I ducked into the bathroom and because I was backstage a little deeper than I wanted to be or should be.

SPEAKER_00: And when I came back out, he and the other guys were all getting ready to go on, and I saw him doing that. I thought that's interesting to note, and I went into the note. And then uh, yeah, so many other little things as you you ask me these questions, you're trying to uh do I jump all these little memories that I have about being back into those deeper recesses. Yeah, that's pretty cool. But a lot of time I was out on the dock, the loading dock, and the loading dock went to a little area just off of the the dock where the actual building started, and then you turn left and you go straight back into catering, and that goes to an outside area, which is a patio that was covered over with sort of an awning, and and there was outside people there.

SPEAKER_00: You know, I remember seeing Robin Xander out there talking on the phone to somebody and hanging out. And one time when I was out there, in fact, I was with my friend Kevin, we had gone to a journey show. I had gotten back stage passes somehow for that one, I don't remember how, but we were out on that patio and we looked inside through that catering area that I previously said. I sat in and they and we saw Neil Sean in there talking to some people like we didn't want to venture in, but or Nel Pineda, the the the now still exposed current singer, he was out there with us and I took a picture with him, Kevin.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's all all this and all these little things going on that just always happening around you, and yeah, nobody really poked me and said, Hey, you know, get out of here kind of things. It's always worked up pretty well.

SPEAKER_01: Once I got established for one, once you got used to it and the right, the backstage, uh, the way it works, like the process.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the way it works, exactly. Yeah, yeah. As I always I always knew when to go where, when to stay away from things. I even referenced in that 2015 story of the Van Halen thing. I knew that there was always a heightened sense of security the closer it got to show time, or the closer it got to when band members were around. So when there was sound check time, there was a little bit more scrutiny, especially in 2015, right, for that Van Halen show, because these guys were you know huge. They're Van Halen, they were the biggest.

SPEAKER_00: So there was no, like when Alex walked right past me onto the into the into the backstage area out to go out to his drums to do that sound check. He was with that guard, and that guard was no fewer than you know two feet away from him as he'd walked right past me. So I didn't say anything to Alex, didn't do anything. I just steered clear and hid in plain sight, as I said, until Yeah, you didn't want to see you again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's what directly he uh he said at least. But yeah, there's there's ways to do it, and like you said, once you learn the lay the land and how to do what to do when and where, I knew exactly where to go and what not to do and all that other good stuff.

SPEAKER_00: So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: Uh Live Age, did you plan on going backstage?

SPEAKER_00: I did not necessarily plan on it. I'm sure I had you know ideas of it. In fact, I think I write that, but I'm always looking for another way in or around or let me see this this from another angle that not everybody else cares about or or gets to see.

SPEAKER_01: So you you're on the field, right? Correct, we're down on the field. And then what did you do? You spotted a fence or something or a guard?

SPEAKER_00: Well, it's just sort of, you know, facing the or facing the stage, way off to the left. Uh I guess I saw people going in and out of this gate. From my I've never known to interrupt you, right.

SPEAKER_01: I was gonna ask you because the field, yeah, I mean you could have been in the middle of it, so you probably wouldn't have got that idea, right? So you're off to the side and you see this, right? Yeah, yeah, we're up. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And we we said, okay, I at least I did. I guess we know we got separated here and there. We just we know where our spot was, so to speak. And I just kind of drifted around and so this guy, the fence was really hot, as I recall. Some guy must have been either on a ladder or some kind of a thing back there that allowed him to be up and looking over the the fence the gate. And somewhere or another, I sort of my my memory serves that I just talked to him, said I needed to get back there, that I left something back there.

SPEAKER_00: I was back there earlier. I don't know what the story was, but I talked my way back because that's all I did. I had no I'm I'm a 21-year-old kid, and I I talked to this guy, and he just opens the gate and says, Okay, and I think I said something to the effect of look, I all my friends are out here with me. Meanwhile, it's just with Kevin, but I was like, My friends are all out here. I'm not going back there to get lost and not see the show. I just got to go back and get what I left there and come back.

SPEAKER_00: Something like that. That's what was in my mind. Okay, so regardless, he lets me back. He just opens the gate and says, Go ahead, and I go back. And I don't leave until I find what amounts to being a discarded pass that says, you know, live eight backstage or whatever it says on it. Um I think I shared that with you. And and once I found that, I thought, cool. So I saw some people somehow or another, Kess Kevin was there outside that gate. This is again written about. And I saw some people going out and I said, Hey, can you give this pass to that guy right there?

SPEAKER_00: Because I wanted him to get back there with me. And so he said, Okay. So he took the pass and he came backstage with me. And there was some issue with the pass, and he lost one, and we found another and all that. But long story short, yeah, you know, he felt bad about it. And I wasn't happy either.

SPEAKER_01: But you find him on the ground or something, or just laying on TV.

SPEAKER_00: I know the one I found was on the yeah, one was just discarded. And then again, moving ahead and forgetting about all that nonsense of him losing the pass. We eventually saw somebody else when we were back there, meeting with that pass again, firmly in hand, not letting him have it. And another family or something was leaving, and either I or he or something just said, Hey, are you you gonna do anything with that pass? The guy's like, No, it's gonna toss it. So he gives it to Kevin. So now he has an identical pass that I have.

SPEAKER_00: So now we're both legit. Once again, there's that word. So now we both have passes on and we can be back there, really. That's what it amounted to. And so we spent the rest of the day drifting back and forth in the stands out to see the show. In the back I'm sorry, backstage and then out to see the show, backstage and out to see the show. And that was a pretty cool little luxury. Because we made it happen. That's what it amounts to.

SPEAKER_01: How long were you back there?

SPEAKER_00: Like uh I don't remember specifics like how long each time, but we did kind of keep going back and forth. Oh, really? We we would go back because we didn't want to miss the show. We were there to see live aid, right? And while and you can't see anything from back there. First of all, the stage is way up in the air and it's completely blocked from you from outside from backstage. We weren't going up on the stage. I had done that a couple times at JFK. I did that at Genesis one year and uh some other stuff, but some other shows, but this time no.

SPEAKER_00: And so we were kind of going back and forth. Hey, we want to see them, let's get out there. And then okay, we want to go backstage. Well, we have our past, so we can go backstage now. That was so cool. It was like having having having that access that other people have that you wonder how they had it, and here we did, we had it however we had it.

SPEAKER_01: But and it's cool that you were able to go back and forth, you know.

SPEAKER_00: You just yeah, which was the which was the the cool thing. I mean, it was I mean, so much going on, and we were just like, yeah, we want to keep exploring this, uh, but we also want to make sure we see the show. So we did that um a handful of times. The memories, you know, fade and how often we did it, who we saw from where and all that. But I could certainly say, you know, who I saw from outside the stage, but we always knew we could just go back whenever we wanted. And that's cool. And that's how we ended the night.

SPEAKER_00: We certainly got back there later in the day, and we were there when all the artists were leaving, or some of them were all the other good stuff. So it was fun. It was cool. Wow.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that does sound like a lot of fun. What a fun day. And then did you get anything like as far as sticks or guitar picks or like a menu from the hard rock cafe or anything?

SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the beginning. You know what? I I didn't get out of menu, but I got a pin. It's a hard rock pin that I've had many of those over the years, having gone to the hard rock up in New York and San Francisco and LA and all these others. Yeah. But this one, it's pins to that backstage pass, and it says right on there, Hard Rock Cafe, live in July 13th, 1985.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right. That's a great thing.

SPEAKER_00: So it's very that's very unique, very specific to that show, that day, that time, and none that I like that.

SPEAKER_01: So and uh real quick, we'll just wrap it up with the you snuck into the uh MTV Awards.

SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, yeah. Two months later to the day, September 13th, 1985, and we drove up to New York, and we figured out a way to get into the MTV Awards. Did you we were we we we invented no, no tickets, no, nothing. Well, although we played like that. This is funny. We took a bold step. We just kind of 80s cool. We thought we're 80's cool, you know, jeans, black jeans. I wore a turkey jacket that I loved like for. He wore a black jacket and some jeans, and we tried to we looked, you know, I don't know, go west or durandoranished in a way, not really, but fit in then.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you fit in. You know, we had long hair at the time, both all that cool stuff. So we we just I said, let's do this, let's go right up the front red carpet, let's go right to the front door and let's see if we can get in. Oh my gosh. Look up ahead and say it didn't happen, but I just wanted to do it, right? I figured take some balls and maybe that'll play up, pay off. So we walked right there. And there's all these lights, the spotlights, and all these people are kind of to the left and right behind these little police barricades.

SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't hold anybody today, probably, but there they were, and we just walked right in there and walked right up to the front street, and they're just like, Okay, do you have your uh tickets? And then we're like, No, we don't have any tickets. They're like, Okay, well, you can't come in. And they took, we just turned around and did what I called a walk of shame, right back down the red carpet and out, and we're out. I figured, oh well, it's worth a shot. We ended up walking down a side street, I forget what, I read it in the book, and I think you tell where we were exactly.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. We're hanging out, and um, I think it was on that same side street. We saw an older couple, I believe, come out of the building, which was Radio City Music Hall, out this side door. Well, we just seized the moment, boom, you don't you don't wait, and we just held the door, and he walked out, like, I'm holding the door for you, sir. Well, thank you very much. And he walks out, and we walked in. And that's it. We're in. And that was pretty great because you know, it's we're inside now. And the the the same old thing always applies, what do we do now?

SPEAKER_00: You know, right? Well, we just started walking around through this labyrinth of halls, and we we come out Yeah, because that's unfamiliar with you.

SPEAKER_01: You're you're not the spectrum or Camden, like now you're unfamiliar territory, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And we we walk in and we just sort of start, you know, walking around, and I forget what happened first, but at one point we were stuck in an in a in a uh stairwell. And because when we got to the top of the stairwell to get out, the door was locked. Okay, so we couldn't go anywhere. We didn't want to go back down and we couldn't go out. And the people that were either there already or that followed us up were three members of the cars and three members of the police. Oh my gosh. Two members of the cars, two members, Ben Orr, now long gone, Ben Ben Orr.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_00: And and Elliot Easton, guitarist Elliot. Yeah, they were they were there, and Amy Mann, Robert Holmes, and Joe Pesci is his name, Joe Pesci, from the Till Tuesday, and I was a huge fan of Till Tuesday at the time. And we had already been in the arena, so I'm I'm backpedaling here, but we had already been into the arena and we found these programs, these beautiful programs from the awards show. So I have mine, he has his. We're stuck in this vest this stairwell with these guys, and we just asked them for autographs, and I think they had pens because they all signed them.

SPEAKER_00: And and then somebody opened the door on the outside and let us fall out.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, that is great.

SPEAKER_00: Well, we didn't, we walked around and the show was ending at the time, but we made our way into the house, and you know, I to this day, I having looked back at the video after that, having seen it aired, and then have it on tape, I think. Yeah, I my belief, and I'm not doing this for any other reason than I think non-accurate, my belief is that the program I have was Julian Leonard's because of where he was sitting and where I so if I'm not mistaken, let's just say for argument's sake, it was the second section back, and it was like two rows back, and it was under the third seat in, something like that, or on the third seat.

SPEAKER_00: Well, having looked back at that video, wherever he was sitting, my record my figuring was like that. You know? So that's that's my story. I can't validate it, and I'm not even 100% sure myself, but I'm pretty sure that that among my thoughts are that it's that was Julian, Julian Lennon's show program, Left on the Seat.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's oh my god, that's awesome. That was somebody important because it was close.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, rock and roll royalty, you know, uh you know, one one step away. But yeah, it was pretty cool. That was a fun day, and it was well worth it. You know, we we always say after the fact, hey, you know, we were tired after Live 8 because we stayed there until well after 11.

SPEAKER_03: Right.

SPEAKER_00: I met Mick Jagger that day, shook hands with McJagger that day, and you know, everything else did happen. And you know, we go out driving up to New York and then we meet Stuart Copeland and we get into this room and we get this poster off the wall that I told you about. And Kevin actually walked past a table of those moon man awards and held one.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: Sure. And he put it back down, and then we kind of went on walking through this maze-like uh hallway and passages to whatever we had found. And then we ended up outside the door at the end of the night, and that's where all the artists were leaving. So what they would do is there was a run, we were there was a barricade of all these people behind us. We were in the area that let's call, you know, prior, you know, we shouldn't be there, but we were there because we came out the door and nobody bothered us.

SPEAKER_00: We were closer to the artist. So they had a runner from the curb, a limo would pull up, look into the limo, the limo would say, you know, you know, Amy Mann or David Lee Roth or whoever. And then the runner would run inside and say, you know, David Lee Roth's limo is here, and then he would come walk in.

SPEAKER_03: Okay, right.

SPEAKER_00: Yep. So that kept happening, and we just saw all these guys just walk past us, Bob Geldolf. And I wrote the names all down on a piece of paper and stuck it in that that program that I still have, and that has my list of everybody that we saw. A couple other guys, Stephen Pearson and Robert Crosby from from Rat. And uh you know, you name it, all these other guys Sting walked right past me, and I was not a fan at the time, but I'm a huge fan now. So that was kind of a neat moment because we were kind of privy to this this view of things happening right in front of us as these artists are walking right past you, once again, from the inside.

SPEAKER_01: There you go. Absolutely, that's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00: All these great stories, like so those are cross-coded moments, which is what my book I guess is all about. It's all about these moments that stuck with me, and I just kept writing about them.

SPEAKER_01: It's a talent, man. Congratulations on it. And I'm gonna put a link, by the way, obviously, on our show notes when I publish it. Oh, yeah, to the to the Amazon. And do you have any other links you want me to include? Or like a second book.

SPEAKER_00: I no, I don't have any anything else like that, but I do have a second book that I wrote, and I referenced this one on the title that I said author of from the inside. It's a travel book, but the only reason I would bring it up and say, you know, if there's any solo drive down the coast of California in 2017.

SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: With no schedule, with no itinerary, you know, a few stops here and there to make, but for the most part, let me see where the road takes me. Well, the reason I say that is because the whole thing is infused with music. So I talk about the show songs that are on the radio or the things that this reminds me of. And at the end of the book, in the back, in fact, I even have a page and a half or two pages of what I call the soundtrack. And it's all these songs that I listen to throughout, just randomly.

SPEAKER_00: I didn't plan anything out on an iPod, I didn't do anything, just the radio, whatever I heard, and or whatever reminded me of something, you know, reminded me of this song by Deep Purple, this drive, the way it was kind of falling and the tempo and the speed and the cadence, little things like that. But for the most part, a lot of music infused throughout, and everybody references that. They say, Oh, I feel like the reviews online say, I feel like I was in the driver's or this the car next to him, the seat next to Russ as I was listening to all this thing and taking this rock and roll journey down to California.

SPEAKER_00: So pretty much anything I write about is probably always gonna have a music vibe through it, and music will be infused. So that was great, man. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Russ, great talking to you, and I will definitely put a link to your book from the inside, a backdrop to the music of my life. Great book, and it's just wonderful. Congratulations on it and appreciate taking the time, really informative.

SPEAKER_00: Thank you. I appreciate it. It's great to do, and that's fun. Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_01: You got it, Russ. I'd like to thank Russ De Bella again for joining me today. This was a fun and informative conversation about his music journey and the backstage experiences after business books. From the inside, a backdrop to the music of my life. And you're gonna find this book enjoyable from a music.

The Program